Subban arbitration UPDATE: Signs 8 year/72 million deal

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I hate that BigTuna is a poster on CP. I get it, we can't just get rid of posters we don't like. But at this point his only goal on this message board is to shift every thread to the Leafs, and unfortunately we collectively take the bait every time.

Now we've got the biggest signing in a long time and a very interesting discussion, turned into a god damn Dion Phaneuf thread. Like **** off.

I actually am happy that we have a stereotypical leaf fan on here. There are times when I hear about Leafs news and really wonder what the self absorbed semi hockey intelligent leafs collective thinks. Like how to defend the Clarkson signing, or Phaneuf extension, or the threats to Reimer's wife.

I come on here see his posts, have a chuckle, and feel reassured that my distain for that team and it's fans is totally legit. It really is quite good for a smile as long as you don't take it seriously.

[BigTuna]

When have I defended the Clarkson extension?

And why not defend the Dion extension? He would have gotten 7 million easily on the open market. He was easily the best available D-Man.

People on this board seriously think Dion is terrible and should be getting 3-4 million per season and think he's not a top 80-100 NHL D-Man. I'm not even going to try to argue with that. Brooks Orpik gets 5.5 million. LOL.

The last time I had this discussion, I had regulars on here listing guys who are healthy scratches that are better than Dion. One guy said Souray was far better. He didn't play a single game last season and hasn't looked good in years.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

When have I defended the Clarkson extension?

And why not defend the Dion extension? He would have gotten 7 million easily on the open market. He was easily the best available D-Man.

People on this board seriously think Dion is terrible and should be getting 3-4 million per season and think he's not a top 80-100 NHL D-Man. I'm not even going to try to argue with that. Brooks Orpik gets 5.5 million. LOL.

The last time I had this discussion, I had regulars on here listing guys who are healthy scratches that are better than Dion.

Who gives a ####. This is a PK Subban thread. You didn't mention his name a single time in this post but got off points on 2 Leafs players. This isn't a Leafs thread and this isn't a Leafs board. All you talk about is the Leafs on a Flames forum. Why are you here? GTFO

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Who gives a ####. This is a PK Subban thread. You didn't mention his name a single time in this post but got off points on 2 Leafs players. This isn't a Leafs thread and this isn't a Leafs board. All you talk about is the Leafs on a Flames forum. Why are you here? GTFO

And I discussed the PK Subban situation a lot. I made some great points.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Subban's contract >>>>>> Phaneuf's contract.

[Da_Chief]

Settle down folks. If you don't wana read him just skip the posts. It'l not that hard. There is a lot of useless posts by Flames fans too. Just relax, enjoy the summer.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Subban's contract >>>>>> Phaneuf's contract.

I agree.

And Subban's contract is far better than the silly comments on here that people would rather build around Hamhuis and his cheap contract.

I've been the biggest booster on here of PK's contract.

Pk Subban=Franchise D-Man you build your team around. He's a superstar. And yes, his defense is just fine. You guys can have your Vlasic's and Hamhuis and see how far that gets you. PK was a stud in the playoffs.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Settle down folks. If you don't wana read him just skip the posts. It'l not that hard. There is a lot of useless posts by Flames fans too. Just relax, enjoy the summer.

I regularly used facts to back-up my arguments and never insult anyone. And I'm a "Troll"? LOL.

[The Familia]

So much for these lockouts....$9 million per year? What a joke. This league is making me sick with the ridiculous contracts. Subban is not worth that price. I would say 6-7 tops.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by The Familia

So much for these lockouts....$9 million per year? What a joke. This league is making me sick with the ridiculous contracts. Subban is not worth that price. I would say 6-7 tops.

That's not realistic. He has a Norris. An 8 year deal takes him through his prime years with the cap going up. He's not going to take 6-7 million through his UFA years when Orpik just got 5.5 million and the cap might be 90+ million in 5 years.

I'd venture many Gms would give PK 9 million if not more right now to grab him. Guys like that never reach UFA and rarely are even available for trade.

And is the NHL that bad? Their star players are making less than a decade ago. No other sport has seen that.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by The Familia

So much for these lockouts....$9 million per year? What a joke. This league is making me sick with the ridiculous contracts. Subban is not worth that price. I would say 6-7 tops.

He's one of the best dmen in the game, he's going to get paid. When guys like Letang, Phaneuf and Green pull in 7.5m, 7m and 6m respectively, a player of Subban's caliber is going to get significantly more. You could almost make an argument he's underpaid compared to those albatross contracts.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I regularly used facts to back-up my arguments and never insult anyone. And I'm a "Troll"? LOL.

I don't think it's the arguments you use but the fact that you are off topic and the topic is always the same, no matter the thread.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by The Familia

So much for these lockouts....$9 million per year? What a joke. This league is making me sick with the ridiculous contracts. Subban is not worth that price. I would say 6-7 tops.

6-7 is probaby what he was asking for 2 years ago. After winning a Norris, having a huge playoffs and seeing guys like Orpik and Niskanen sign for close to 6 million there is no way he's not asking for significantly more this time around. They wanted him to prove himself and that he did. Time to fork up. Especially when you see Kane and Toews getting 10+. The landscape has changed and it's a sign the league is doing well. Hopefully it can sustain it.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't think it's the arguments you use but the fact that you are off topic and the topic is always the same, no matter the thread.

I talked about Subban a lot in this thread. I was not the one who brought-up Phaneuf.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I talked about Subban a lot in this thread. I was not the one who brought-up Phaneuf.

I think the main difference is that Phaneuf gets brought up in passing, and you jumped at the opportunity to make the conversation about him.

If a player gets brought up in passing, I wouldn't think that's any reason to focus on that player, especially when you start making posts about that player without relating it to the topic at all.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

I think the main difference is that Phaneuf gets brought up in passing, and you jumped at the opportunity to make the conversation about him.

If a player gets brought up in passing, I wouldn't think that's any reason to focus on that player, especially when you start making posts about that player without relating it to the topic at all.

Stop complaining. If I'm the biggest "Troll" here, you guys have it made. You should see the crap Leaf fans get. You guys are freaking-out over nothing.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Stop complaining. If I'm the biggest "Troll" here, you guys have it made. You should see the crap Leaf fans get. You guys are freaking-out over nothing.

What? I wasn't complaining, I was giving you advice man! lol. Nobody here is remotely freaking out (well, except you now?).

Just don't feel the need to defend Leafs players any time the opportunity comes up. It's a Flames board, I assume it's going to happen, just let it go if someone takes a pot-shot at Dion.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Stop complaining. If I'm the biggest "Troll" here, you guys have it made. You should see the crap Leaf fans get. You guys are freaking-out over nothing.

and Leaf's fans in their egocentric world will never understand why the rest of the country is sick of them.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

and Leaf's fans in their egocentric world will never understand why the rest of the country is sick of them.

We know why. You guys tell us constantly.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

You're using that stat incorrectly.
Dion has the highest QoC relative to his ice-time. At an average of 23:33, and with a QoC/TOI of 30.1%, he played against the highest quality of competition an average of 7.02 per game.

You know who played against tougher competition more? Several defencemen, including "defensively liable" Erik Karlsson:

Karlsson - 27.04/29.0% = 7.84 minutes per game

As well as some of the following:
Suter - 8.57 per game
Weber - 7.86 per game
Josi - 7.74 per game
Campbell - 7.65 per game
Brodie - 7.08 per game
Doughty - 7.37 per game

... the list goes on.

PK Subban - 7.02 per game

Not 100% sure on this, I didn't come up with this statistic, but I believe you're interpreting this incorrectly. I believe this stat to mean the average % that his competition plays of their team's ice time. I would imagine this is time-weighted as well. Example:

Plays 66.6% of the time against player A, who averages 15 minutes (25%)
Plays 33.3% of the time against player B, who averages 30 minutes (50%)

(.666*.25) + (.333*.50) *100% = 33.3% QoC TOI%.

This is based on the logic that the best players play the most ice time. Your interpretation (30% means 30% of his ice time is spent playing against 'top competition) leaves 'top competition' without any real definition. Again, not based on any fact, but it makes much more sense in my eyes. It's an iffy stat for me based on how close the numbers are in comparison to Quality of Competition stats that are possession-based.