Subban arbitration UPDATE: Signs 8 year/72 million deal

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He looked far better than "Okay", he looked great. Shutting down the top NHL stars nightly. He plays the toughest minutes in the NHL. There are a ton of D-Men you think are "Better" who would crumble in his role.

The entire team looked gassed. It'll be better next season with more depth and Carlyle actually playing a 4th line.

LOL. Sorry, but no one in the East plays the "toughest minutes in the NHL". Not to mention the rest of your argument is just hilarious

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Dion Phaneuf is no good.

[Chill Cosby]

Dion is a pretty good defenceman. He and TJ Brodie are actually really close comparables. He's no superstar, but if you're a Leafs fan I assume you'd be just as excited as the Flames are about guys like Brodie (even though Dion is a leap older).

I get why he's saying the toughest competition thing, he's clearly seen a few advanced stats regarding QoC, but it's moderately meaningless out of context, which is how it's being used. Dion is a fine 1B/2nd line defenceman on a team like the Leafs.

Back to Subban?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

LOL. Sorry, but no one in the East plays the "toughest minutes in the NHL". Not to mention the rest of your argument is just hilarious

Dion is #1 in QOC.

And why knock the East/ The best players are in the East.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Dion is #1 in QOC.

And why knock the East/ The best players are in the East.

And the best teams are in the west. Weird. I wonder if maybe the best players play in the better conference?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

And the best teams are in the west. Weird. I wonder if maybe the best players play in the better conference?

Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin.

Toews, Kane, Doughty, Kopitar. We can play this game all day.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Dion is #1 in QOC.

And why knock the East/ The best players are in the East.

You're using that stat incorrectly.
Dion has the highest QoC relative to his ice-time. At an average of 23:33, and with a QoC/TOI of 30.1%, he played against the highest quality of competition an average of 7.02 per game.

You know who played against tougher competition more? Several defencemen, including "defensively liable" Erik Karlsson:

Karlsson - 27.04/29.0% = 7.84 minutes per game

As well as some of the following:
Suter - 8.57 per game
Weber - 7.86 per game
Josi - 7.74 per game
Campbell - 7.65 per game
Brodie - 7.08 per game
Doughty - 7.37 per game

... the list goes on.

Dion Phaneuf wasn't even in the top 15 of time played against the highest quality of competition.

You know who had the same time played against high QoC as Dion?
PK Subban - 7.02 per game
... but he put up 22 more points...

So, if you're using the QoC argument as to why Dion didn't score as many points as other guys, that's fair, because he didn't have as much opportunity as they did against weaker competition due to his relatively low total TOI. But if you're making a case for Dion being some defensive superstar that shut down the top player every night? Well... sorry, even Erik Karlsson was more defensively depended on than Dion.

[Vulcan]

About a million more per year than I expected but it's good for Montreal to have him signed up for 8 years. The guy's a stud and deserves top dollar.

His not getting much ice time on team Canada just means he couldn't beat out Doughty and Weber on the right side as an offensive defenceman. As Yzerrman said you need to fill a specific need to make the team.

"We're not putting together a team for an NHL All-Star Game, we're putting together the best possible team we can to compete against the best players in the world and try and win a gold medal," Yzerman said Monday. "Part of that comes with picking players who can do specific things for us."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=678900

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin.

Go on... Three players makes it the harder place to play?

[jayswin]

I hate that BigTuna is a poster on CP. I get it, we can't just get rid of posters we don't like. But at this point his only goal on this message board is to shift every thread to the Leafs, and unfortunately we collectively take the bait every time.

Now we've got the biggest signing in a long time and a very interesting discussion, turned into a god damn Dion Phaneuf thread. Like **** off.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I hate that BigTuna is a poster on CP. I get it, we can't just get rid of posters we don't like. But at this point his only goal on this message board is to shift every thread to the Leafs, and unfortunately we collectively take the bait every time.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/profile...ignore&u=10942

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by getbak

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/profile...ignore&u=10942

That helps to ignore posters who say stupid **** and get ignored by everyone, but doesn't do anything for a poster like BigTuna.

His specialty is completely derailing a thread into a pointless pissing match about the Leafs and how some player or coach or the fans of the team are the absolute best and everyone's stupid if they don't agree.

This thread has been about Phaneuf since the last page. So unless you're putting every poster who responds to him (even I have from time to time) on ignore also, he's going to **** up threads.

He knows what he's doing, too, but he understands how to troll properly and not get banned. It's really too bad.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

You're using that stat incorrectly.
Dion has the highest QoC relative to his ice-time. At an average of 23:33, and with a QoC/TOI of 30.1%, he played against the highest quality of competition an average of 7.02 per game.

You know who played against tougher competition more? Several defencemen, including "defensively liable" Erik Karlsson:

Karlsson - 27.04/29.0% = 7.84 minutes per game

As well as some of the following:
Suter - 8.57 per game
Weber - 7.86 per game
Josi - 7.74 per game
Campbell - 7.65 per game
Brodie - 7.08 per game
Doughty - 7.37 per game

... the list goes on.

Dion Phaneuf wasn't even in the top 15 of time played against the highest quality of competition.

You know who had the same time played against high QoC as Dion?
PK Subban - 7.02 per game
... but he put up 22 more points...

So, if you're using the QoC argument as to why Dion didn't score as many points as other guys, that's fair, because he didn't have as much opportunity as they did against weaker competition due to his relatively low total TOI. But if you're making a case for Dion being some defensive superstar that shut down the top player every night? Well... sorry, even Erik Karlsson was more defensively depended on than Dion.

That's how they rank them. So how am I using it incorrectly?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

That's how they rank them. So how am I using it incorrectly?

Now you're just being purposely obtuse. He explained how you used it incorrectly. Heck, you just quoted it

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

That's how they rank them. So how am I using it incorrectly?

Ok, I know I'm just going to make flameswin mad here by responding and perpetuating the derailment, so I apologise, and at the risk of wasting time by humouring the fact that you ignored everything in the post you quoted:

You are using it incorrectly because you used it in response to this:

Originally Posted by ThePrince

LOL. Sorry, but no one in the East plays the "toughest minutes in the NHL". Not to mention the rest of your argument is just hilarious

Which indicates you were using it to defend this:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He looked far better than "Okay", he looked great. Shutting down the top NHL stars nightly. He plays the toughest minutes in the NHL. There are a ton of D-Men you think are "Better" who would crumble in his role.

Which it actually does not indicate. In fact, QoC indicates he does NOT play the toughest minutes in the NHL, but rather, he plays less tough minutes (though a higher % due to less minutes overall, which is what you're confusing with the "toughest minutes") than many 1st pairing defencemen in the league.

TJ Brodie, for example, is a player most here believe would be 2nd pairing on most competitive teams, but could crack the 1st pairing on a few bottom teams (like the Flames). He was counted on to match up with the superstars of the NHL nightly as well, and did it actually MORE than Phaneuf did.

Dion did not, in fact, play the toughest minutes in the NHL. Nor did he "shut down superstars" nightly. He played against them... but there's about 13+ players on every team that play against superstars every night. So... yay?

[chockfullofgoodness]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

And people pointing to the Olympics like that matters that he didn't play much.

Team Canada also left off the bum Crosby...Team Canada doesn't always pick the best players to play, they pick the best team to play a certain way. You can't have too much of the same player. I don't think of that as a slight to Subban at all.

What?

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by chockfullofgoodness

What?

I think they are referring to the 2006 team.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by flameswin

That helps to ignore posters who say stupid **** and get ignored by everyone, but doesn't do anything for a poster like BigTuna.

His specialty is completely derailing a thread into a pointless pissing match about the Leafs and how some player or coach or the fans of the team are the absolute best and everyone's stupid if they don't agree.

This thread has been about Phaneuf since the last page. So unless you're putting every poster who responds to him (even I have from time to time) on ignore also, he's going to **** up threads.

He knows what he's doing, too, but he understands how to troll properly and not get banned. It's really too bad.

he needs to be collectively ignored

[chockfullofgoodness]

Originally Posted by DOOM

I think they are referring to the 2006 team.

Ah. Makes sense now.