Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by T@T

When the idiot is done being a muslim he can join Westboro Baptist Church..fit right in.

He isn't a muslim.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

He isn't a muslim.

You drink beers with him?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by T@T

You drink beers with him?

You must have to know he was muslim.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by T@T

You drink beers with him?

Article says he was an atheist, and was chanting "Kill more Palestinian children" at the protesters" while holding that homemade flag, so I would more aptly call him a grade A d-bag.

Wish rallies and protests could be without violence, but d-bags like that just try to start fights so peaceful rallies could have a negative light.

Don't think any pro-palestinian protestors would want to be painted with the same brush as that guy, so I don't think that story should be summed up as a pro-Israeli assaulting a pro-palestinian, better summed up as idiot gets assaulted by security at a protest.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Azure

I find it mind-boggling that people actually bring up the number of deaths as a talking point. Its stupid.

Explain why you think this?

I'm pretty sure if Israel had 1000 dead and there were ?50? Palestinians dead in this episode people would be talking about it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

This a report from Human Rights Watch from the 2012 Operation Pillar of Defense which list multiple instances where civilians were the only apparent targets of attack as well as attacks that caused a disproportionate amount of civilian casualties outweigh the value of the military target.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/02/12/i...lated-laws-war

While Hamas deserve blame for using human shields, it's important that Israel not use it as an excuse for every civilian causality. Certainly we wouldn't believe if Hamas started claiming that it's were only targeting IDF facilities in Israel with their indiscriminate rockets attacks.

The US had many incidents in Iraq/Afghanistan where it turned out the only people being hit were civilians. In fact many drone attacks result in the same thing.

Does that mean they intentionally got orders from up top to target those civilians? No. But at times intelligence is screwed up and you end up hitting the wrong building. It has been happening for thousands of years in every single conflict.

It certainly doesn't mean that Israel is intentionally going out and targeting areas where there are civilians, HOPING there will be civilian casualties. They attack rocket/weapon sites and obviously feel there is only so much you can do about the civilians in those areas.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Explain why you think this?

I'm pretty sure if Israel had 1000 dead and there were ?50? Palestinians dead in this episode people would be talking about it.

I mean the comparison of number of deaths.

"Only 4 people have died on the Israeli side and 1000 on the Palestinian side, therefore Israel is at fault."

It does nothing to explain the complexity of the issues both sides are facing, or how the people on both sides are affected. Should Israel stop using the Iron Dome system and allow their citizens to be targeted? One would think there would be praise for such a system that allows innocent people to be protected from a possible rocket attack.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Funny how Ezra Levant and Ian Robinson have been silent about the Pro-Israelis assaulting a pro-Palestinian in Toronto.

This is Canada, not Israel.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014...eens_park.html

Don't know if I would call this an assault. Looks like 2 young men willingly fighting. If anything the Palestinian supporter has the upper hand. I hope you see the difference between this and dozens of grown men punching a girl and throwing her on the ground, which is what happened in Calgary.

[Arya Stark]

Lol how about you watch the video.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1476983/pr...ly-in-toronto/

He gets attacked and then kicked in the head while he is down.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Lol how about you watch the video.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1476983/pr...ly-in-toronto/

He gets attacked and then kicked in the head while he is down.

How does he "get attacked". The video cuts straight from yelling to into the two fighting, both with fists in the air ready to fight. It's always a 1 vs 1 fight. At no point does a third person from either side hit either of the two combatants. They both have a friend with them who is blocking others from intervening.

The kick was a cheap shot. as the fight was over. But it also occurs while an Israeli supporter is breaking up and ending the fight. Big difference between that and an angry mob attacking a family.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Azure

The US had many incidents in Iraq/Afghanistan where it turned out the only people being hit were civilians. In fact many drone attacks result in the same thing.

Does that mean they intentionally got orders from up top to target those civilians? No. But at times intelligence is screwed up and you end up hitting the wrong building. It has been happening for thousands of years in every single conflict.

It certainly doesn't mean that Israel is intentionally going out and targeting areas where there are civilians, HOPING there will be civilian casualties. They attack rocket/weapon sites and obviously feel there is only so much you can do about the civilians in those areas.

All government sources are full of it. For me, anything the US says militarily, I discount as propaganda until there is independent verification. I have the same default stance for Israel's government claims, and ditto for any ruling party in Gaza / West Bank. This is why I have to chuckle when people cite government or military statements as proof.

Taken in that light, much of the claims in these wars have similar patterns. The intelligence behind the action is always "justified" and the action itself is always "surgical." The reality is usually far from both, and it is debatable whether collateral damage really and truly enters the calculation. We know that with US actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan, collateral damage has not been a hindrance.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Lol how about you watch the video.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1476983/pr...ly-in-toronto/

He gets attacked and then kicked in the head while he is down.

To be fair, if he hadn't been knocked down, his head wouldn't have been in the way of that kick. It's kind of his fault, if you think about it really hard.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

All government sources are full of it. For me, anything the US says militarily, I discount as propaganda until there is independent verification. I have the same default stance for Israel's government claims, and ditto for any ruling party in Gaza / West Bank. This is why I have to chuckle when people cite government or military statements as proof.

Taken in that light, much of the claims in these wars have similar patterns. The intelligence behind the action is always "justified" and the action itself is always "surgical." The reality is usually far from both, and it is debatable whether collateral damage really and truly enters the calculation. We know that with US actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan, collateral damage has not been a hindrance.

There is no freedom of press in Hamas' Gaza. Much of the "independent" news from the Gaza Strip is filtered through Hamas. Hamas gives the independent media stringers to supply them with photos.

I think it's fair of you to take any pro-government news source with a grain of salt, but that same discretion should be applied to all news sources in this conflict. Journalists aren't allowed to walk around freely in Gaza. The Israeli government will obviously always present facts in ways which best suits its own agenda.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by blankall

There is no freedom of press in Hamas' Gaza. Much of the "independent" news from the Gaza Strip is filtered through Hamas. Hamas gives the independent media stringers to supply them with photos.

I think it's fair of you to take any pro-government news source with a grain of salt, but that same discretion should be applied to all news sources in this conflict. Journalists aren't allowed to walk around freely in Gaza. The Israeli government will obviously always present facts in ways which best suits its own agenda.

In the age of Twitter, news from independent outlets is much closer to the ground. You can see real time events from a variety of reporters and photographers.

As for Hamas supplying media stringers: sure. But I view that no different than the IDF taking Wolf Blitzer for a trip through some tunnels. Or having David Gregory serve as a de facto mouth piece for US government positions.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

In the age of Twitter, news from independent outlets is much closer to the ground. You can see real time events from a variety of reporters and photographers.

As for Hamas supplying media stringers: sure. But I view that no different than the IDF taking Wolf Blitzer for a trip through some tunnels. Or having David Gregory serve as a de facto mouth piece for US government positions.

I'd agree it's no different.

Basically my point is that any news source coming from that area needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Azure

I mean the comparison of number of deaths.

"Only 4 people have died on the Israeli side and 1000 on the Palestinian side, therefore Israel is at fault."

It does nothing to explain the complexity of the issues both sides are facing, or how the people on both sides are affected. Should Israel stop using the Iron Dome system and allow their citizens to be targeted? One would think there would be praise for such a system that allows innocent people to be protected from a possible rocket attack.

The Iron Dome isn't the military kit that is killing anyone...it's all defence

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

In the age of Twitter, news from independent outlets is much closer to the ground. You can see real time events from a variety of reporters and photographers.

As for Hamas supplying media stringers: sure. But I view that no different than the IDF taking Wolf Blitzer for a trip through some tunnels. Or having David Gregory serve as a de facto mouth piece for US government positions.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/16-year-...gaza-1.1938007

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by blankall

How does he "get attacked". The video cuts straight from yelling to into the two fighting, both with fists in the air ready to fight. It's always a 1 vs 1 fight. At no point does a third person from either side hit either of the two combatants. They both have a friend with them who is blocking others from intervening.

The kick was a cheap shot. as the fight was over. But it also occurs while an Israeli supporter is breaking up and ending the fight. Big difference between that and an angry mob attacking a family.

Of course there is a difference but kicking someone in the head while they are down is assault. And that guy did attack the guy first and then kicked him in the head. Wasn't a mutual fight, he was defending himself. Freedom of speech only applies to pro-Israel folks I guess.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Last night, children were killed as they slept next to their parents on the floor of a classroom in a UN designated shelter in Gaza. Children killed in their sleep; this is an affront to all of us, a source of universal shame. Today the world stands disgraced.

We have visited the site and gathered evidence. We have analysed fragments, examined craters and other damage. Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school, in which 3,300 people had sought refuge. We believe there were at least three impacts. It is too early to give a confirmed official death toll. But we know that there were multiple civilian deaths and injuries including of women and children and the UNRWA guard who was trying to protect the site. These are people who were instructed to leave their homes by the Israeli army.

The precise location of the Jabalia Elementary Girls School and the fact that it was housing thousands of internally displaced people was communicated to the Israeli army seventeen times, to ensure its protection; the last being at ten to nine last night, just hours before the fatal shelling.

I condemn in the strongest possible terms this serious violation of international law by Israeli forces.

This is the sixth time that one of our schools has been struck. Our staff, the very people leading the humanitarian response are being killed. Our shelters are overflowing. Tens of thousands may soon be stranded in the streets of Gaza, without food, water and shelter if attacks on these areas continue.

We have moved beyond the realm of humanitarian action alone. We are in the realm of accountability. I call on the international community to take deliberate international political action to put an immediate end to the continuing carnage.

http://www.unrwa.org//newsroom/offic...SNh_9A.twitter

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Lol how about you watch the video.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1476983/pr...ly-in-toronto/

He gets attacked and then kicked in the head while he is down.

Perhaps he might not have been attacked if he hadn't been waving that extremely provocative sign around?

Come on now... the Star of David replaced by a Nazi swastika?... at a pro Israel rally?



He was asking for it.