BBC's Jon Donnison says Israeli officials say kidnapping was NOT the work of Hamas. A lone cell responsible. Oh well, at least hundreds of people died.
Jon Donnison @JonDonnison · 9h
Mickey Rosenfeld said lone cells much harder to track. Said they would find whoever was now protecting the two suspects.
Jon Donnison @JonDonnison · 9h
Israeli police spokes Mickey Rosenfeld also said if kidnapping had been ordered by Hamas leadership, they'd have known about it in advance.
Jon Donnison @JonDonnison · 14h
Seems to contradict the line from Netanyahu government. 2/2
Jon Donnison @JonDonnison · 14h
Israeli police MickeyRosenfeld tells me men who killed 3 Israeli teens def lone cell, hamas affiliated but not operating under leadership1/2
It was always known these people acted as a lone cell. Hence why Israel went around arresting Hamas operatives in the West Bank instead of going directly after the leadership in Gaza. Notice how all of my previous posts talk about funding and hiding their operatives. Not ordering the murders.
This was also not the "pretext for war" in the Gaza Strip. The war happened after Hamas responded to arrests with rocket fire and wouldn't stop the rocket fire. It escalated once Israel discovered the network of tunnels underneath their border.
BBC's Jon Donnison says Israeli officials say kidnapping was NOT the work of Hamas. A lone cell responsible. Oh well, at least hundreds of people died.
You know perfectly well the kidnapping was not the start...I have made multiple posts detailing the 100s of rockets fired prior to the kidnapping. And what did Israel do? They documented every detail and watched as the world was silent.
Did the kidnapping play a part? You bet, but after how many rockets did Hamas (the 'elected' government) fire at civilians?
What should Israel have done when the rockets were being fired in the hundreds?
Gaza was a pretty good place for Palestinians to demonstrate some good will and prove to Israel (and the world) how well they could do without Israel running things. Instead Hamas started launching rockets, what a terrible mistake.
This reveals some insight into the psychology of the ardent defenders of Israel. So forged and hardened they've become after years of defending their existence they then take any criticism as some of type of deeply pointed attack to their core. Am I saying Israel doesn't deserve to exist? No.
You are losing it. Where do you pull this garbage from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinordi
My line throughout this thread has been consistent and straight forward. The Israeli government is run by a bunch of bloodthirsty right wing fanatics that are not only pursuing but internalizing the reality of constant war. There is no peace for these nuts.
No, you have been inconsistent. You claim to be having a rational debate, but this is far from it. You completely ignore the terror Israel confronts daily, the armies that have attempted to destroy it, and the fact other nations spend a lot of money to arm Hamas to the detriment of Palestinians. You pretend hundreds of rockets have not fallen and that Israel started this. People like you in my opinion enable groups like Hamas, and are doing worse for Palestinians. What a great moment it would have been to have Palestinian protestors protesting the rockets fired from Hamas, rather than beating up peaceful supporters of Israel.
Israel has ZERO problem with Palestinians - they have a problem with violence. If you haven't noticed, the entire region, and pretty much the rest of the near world including Africa, is having a real problem with violence. Israel will not allow it inside it's border. I can't blame them. However, it is shocking to me other nations haven't stepped in to help - disarm Palestinians and force them to prove they can be good neighbours. I know Israel can prove it and I know Palestinians can prove it, as long as they are not afraid to with groups like Hamas and other terrorist groups pointing guns at them. You trying to demonstrate the opposite is sickening - it actually prevents people from putting their weapons down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinordi
There's a line that most defenders such as yourself seem to not understand. Israel is not above reproach because of the historical hardship they faced. They are now the regions dominant power and are wielding that power in increasingly violent and indefensible ways. The fact that you feel urged to justify everything they do with the laziest of retorts, such as an Israel invented something you use therefore you should ignore the 700 dead civilians, many of them children and come to our side. Or, that other side of terrorists shoots a bunch of ineffective rockets at us meaning we can bomb schools and hospitals in retaliation, demonstrates just how bad your arguments are.
What makes you think Israel is the regions dominant power? Israel invests in education, freedom and every other things people move to Canada for. Israel only wants peace, and those that make peace with Israel have peace with Israel. Do you think there are Jordanian soldiers defending their border from Israel? No chance - any soldiers are there to keep out groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and African refugees (with which other posters are using to villianize Israel.
Only a total fool would stick with the 'ineffective rocket' claim. Shameful.
I love the 'bloodthirsty' claim - is this a blood libel claim? Or is this something that you consider a term used in reasonable debate? Or what about the use of the term pariah? The words you choose are hateful, as simple as that. They are certainly not constructive.
You know perfectly well the kidnapping was not the start...I have made multiple posts detailing the 100s of rockets fired prior to the kidnapping. And what did Israel do? They documented every detail and watched as the world was silent.
Did the kidnapping play a part? You bet, but after how many rockets did Hamas (the 'elected' government) fire at civilians?
What should Israel have done when the rockets were being fired in the hundreds?
Gaza was a pretty good place for Palestinians to demonstrate some good will and prove to Israel (and the world) how well they could do without Israel running things. Instead Hamas started launching rockets, what a terrible mistake.
Look at how many rockets were fired from May to the beginning of the conflict, after the unity government was formed. A handful. This while Israel was building settlements, withholding money,etc. The problem, other than your complete one-sidedness, is that the optics of rockets being fired is worse than the optics of building on other's land and withholding money, even though the latter causes far more hardship.
Closing in on 1000 civilians callously murdered by an occupying force.
Calling this a 'war' is perverse.
And about 200 being children. Israel is losing support from all over. The user Tinordi was right in calling them a Pariah state and it is becoming more clear each and every day.
And about 200 being children. Israel is losing support from all over. The user Tinordi was right in calling them a Pariah state and it is becoming more clear each and every day.
I still want to know where everyone on this thread who supports the Palestinian cause have been while 180,000 people were slaughtered in Syria. Many in the so called pariah state to the south sat back in shock and tears watching powerlessly as the World did nothing to stop it.
I still want to know where everyone on this thread who supports the Palestinian cause have been while 180,000 people were slaughtered in Syria. Many in the so called pariah state to the south sat back in shock and tears watching powerlessly as the World did nothing to stop it.
Do you want me to go fight in Syria? If it makes you feel better I posted some comments on social media condemning the killings there and the Syrian government.
Pro-Israeli guys always have a way of deflecting criticism off Israel. UN shelter gets bombed and they and the media run several sensationalistic articles mentioning how Hamas dresses up as women and children like that somehow softens the bombing of children, women and U.N workers.
Do you want me to go fight in Syria? If it makes you feel better I posted some comments on social media condemning the killings there and the Syrian government.
Pro-Israeli guys always have a way of deflecting criticism off Israel. UN shelter gets bombed and they and the media run several sensationalistic articles mentioning how Hamas dresses up as women and children like that somehow softens the bombing of children, women and U.N workers.
The media is no friend of Israel that's for sure. I am not shy about being critical of the government of Israel nor the IDF when circumstances warrant. But this cannot continue. Hamas must be disarmed once and for all and renounce violence. There is no reason for these kinds of weapons to be stockpiled in Gaza.
As I said before all of this is on Hamas. What have they done over the last several years? Their "infrastructure projects" involved the construction of vast networks of underground tunnels in which to import weapons to attack Israeli citizens. They demand an end to the blockade of Gaza not for humanitarian purposes but so they can freely import larger more sophisticated and destructive weapons from Iran in which to carry out their terrorist objectives.
Closing in on 1000 civilians callously murdered by an occupying force.
Calling this a 'war' is perverse.
So according to you it's OK to fire 2000 rockets at another country and not expect to get bombed backed? Should Israel just allow this to happen and not fight back because a terrorist group are using people as human shields?
I can't believe how dense people are, Hamas wants civilians killed, they want the whole world to hate Israel, they want Israel to be blown off the map. Hamas leaders don't even have the balls to go anywhere near Gaza, they throw out their suicide orders from other countries like Qatar and Dubai living like kings.
Hamas and all terrorist organizations are the ones who need to seize to exist. Palestinian's will continue to die as long as they support these type of groups. The whole world would help the Palestinian cause if they got rid of terrorism.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to T@T For This Useful Post:
Hamas and all terrorist organizations are the ones who need to seize to exist. Palestinian's will continue to die as long as they support these type of groups. The whole world would help the Palestinian cause if they got rid of terrorism.
Straight and honest question for you:
I agree that launching rockets at another people is a form of terrorism. Do you think indiscriminately bulldozing a home is terrorism?
DIRECT FROM THE FACEBOOK PAGE OF MOHAMMAD ZOABI:
As an Israeli Muslim Arab, I was subjugated to brainwashing against the Jews while i was growing up. I was taught that we should hate them because they took our land, and that no Jewish person should be
living here. I was told by a few of my own family members that the Jews were planning to throw us into the sea and until that happened I would be suffering in Israel because I was an Arab.
I decided to explore the situation on my own, I went out and started meeting new people, I met a lot of Jews… What struck me at first is that they didn’t hate me like I was taught to hate them, but rather I felt care, respect, love, and a want to co-exist.
I began to realize how lucky I was to be born in Israel, to live in a free, democratic, and first world country with lots of opportunities.
Its not easy to be an Israeli Arab Zionist in an Arab Society. I was attacked physically several times, and insulted a lot.
But with the support of my amazing mother and my friends in the only country in the entire Middle East where freedom of speech is allowed, I will continue to speak out for what is right. I know that there are other many other Israeli Arabs that feel the same because almost 90% of us said that they would rather remain an Israeli than become a Palestinian citizen, but they are afraid of being hurt. That is why I am asking the world to please listen and protect the truth about Israel.
The world needs to wake up.
I see myself as a lucky Arab for being born in Israel.
I am lucky to be born in a democratic country like Israel.
I have an opportunity to live as an equal human being who lives in the 21st century.
Though, anti Israel still accuse Israel for being an aparthiehd state, ignoring the true apartheid of the Arab world’s views against the Jews and Zionists like myself of Israel. All these talks of peace will only come true when the Arabs will stop educating their children to dream about killing and eliminating the Jews.
Peace with will be achieved only when the arabs will start loving their children more than they hate us.
World wake up. Shame on you for being anti hope, democracy, and freedom in the middle east. Shame on you, to be anti Israel.
Am Yisrael chai
I agree that launching rockets is a form of terrorism and that a response should be expected. Not sure where you think I'm deflecting his question?
But given my acknowledgment, I'm curious where people draw the line between terrorism and non-terrorism, and which offensive actions justify a response.
So my question stands: Do readers of this board believe that indiscriminate bulldozing of homes is an act of terrorism?
