Article: What does Cheveldayoff do exactly?

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Wheeler - Little - Ladd
Kane - Scheifle -Byfuglien

Bogosian - Trouba
Enstrom - Stuart/ Morrissey


Is a playoff teams top-6 and top-4....

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

the Jets are actually not a terrible team, they're fairly average. Nothing to really be ashamed of.... but they do have quite possibly the worst NHL goaltending in a decade. I'm amazed we lost to them last year frankly and don't expect that to continue next year (barring goaltender changes I guess).

We will have good goaltending in the future. Hutchinson, Hellebucyk, and Comrie are all going to challenge Pavelec for the #1 position in goal for the next 2 years. Chances are, either Hutch or Hellebucyk will beat Pavs out of a job by December.

The real question is do the new goalies have what it takes to become a bona fide NHL starter, and lead the Jets to the playoffs. I ahve no doubt Pavelec's best days or behind him, and he will likely be cast away by the end of the season.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by gilligans_off

lol. To answer the OP question, Cheveldayoff takes the specs from the client and gives them to the software engineers.

Looking at some of Sutter's and Feaster's trades though maybe the Flames would have been better off having a more patient GM.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

...Looking at some of Sutter's and Feaster's trades though maybe the Flames would have been better off having a more patient GM.

Feaster was not a great GM, but I would hardly characterise him as impatient.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Feaster was not a great GM, but I would hardly characterise him as impatient.

As Captain Hindsight would say, the Regehr, Bouwmeester, and Tanguay/Sarich trades in particular are ones which did not need to be done at the time and could have required some patience and second thought. I agree that Feaster was not generally impatient though. He was probably too patient with the Iginla core and no moves at the trade deadline.

To discuss Cheveldayoff, I don't think you can criticize his lack of trades too much. The Jets have a decent young core so I can see why he has not been in an hurry to trade anyone. Their rebuild has stagnated though so this season is the time for him to make a trade, likely involving Kane, that would net them a scoring winger and/or an upgrade in goal.

[Textcritic]

^
I think Cheveldayoff is hamstrung by the same situation as was Feaster, only it is likely more of a problem in Winnipeg. He is not likely to get a very good return in a Kane deal, since bidding teams already know that he needs to move him, and further are also aware of Kane's desire to leave Winnipeg. It is much like what happened in Vancouver with Kesler: Kane will be traded, but he will be the best player in the deal; the return will not help the Jets in the short term, which is where they really need it.

[CliffFletcher]

I know fans love trades, but draft and develop is a legitimate management strategy. In that same time frame, Ken Holland has made only two player-for-player trades.

[Tinordi]

Tough position for Chevy. He's stuck in a situation where the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. What do you do in that situation to actually improve without sacrificing a good piece for less than its value?

I mean yeah, the top six forwards and and the top 3-4 D looks really good. Why haven't they gelled into a more consistent team? Maybe there's issues in the room, players aren't performing up to standards, but does that mean you trade your players off at pennies on the dollar? In hindsight that's an easier call to make. But at the time, there's probably a strong urge to play it out and hope your players turn the corner to at least build their value on the market.

Take Kane, that guy clearly has the potential to be a 40 goal scorer in this league along with bringing meanness and a valuable power game. Had a bad season last year, he's young, do you just peddle him off for the sake of it, or for a stop gap? Reminds me of a certain situation with Iginla, we could have traded him before he busted out for more immediate help (Mike Peca) but that wouldn't have been prudent.

In the end, fans, as evidenced very clearly on this board, are incredibly impatient and don't have to deal with the hard choices. I'm not saying Chevy is a great GM or anything but his situation is a very tough one and under appreciated by fans at least in this thread.

[Read Only]

I don't think he is in that tough of a spot. He has a mediocre to bad team with a top 6 that isn't close to good enough outside of winning an overrated contest and a top 4 defense that is pretty weak overall.

Kane may, key word may, have 40 goal potential but he has scored over 20 once so far in his career and maintained an attitude that really makes you question if he can take the jump that a guy like Iginla, hardest worker on the team, made.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

In the end, fans, as evidenced very clearly on this board, are incredibly impatient and don't have to deal with the hard choices. I'm not saying Chevy is a great GM or anything but his situation is a very tough one and under appreciated by fans at least in this thread.

Ha ha ha ha you must be the life of the party in your personal life. Yes we underappreciate the difficult decisions Chevy has made regarding their goaltending position that has clearly held them back. He's a terrible GM and nobody here has once said he should conduct a fire sale. All the comments have been more to him trying to fix what's broken instead of trotting out the same group expecting different results annually.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Read Only

I don't think he is in that tough of a spot. He has a mediocre to bad team with a top 6 that isn't close to good enough outside of winning an overrated contest and a top 4 defense that is pretty weak overall.

Kane may, key word may, have 40 goal potential but he has scored over 20 once so far in his career and maintained an attitude that really makes you question if he can take the jump that a guy like Iginla, hardest worker on the team, made.

Wow if what you say is true that makes me think that I should give up cheering for the Flames.

What Flame would break into the Jets top 6 and make it better.... There might be an argument that Monahan will turn out better than Schiefele. Now they are about even. But would Hudler be an upgrade on Little?

On the other hand any of the Jets top 6 would be in the Flames top 3.

On defense Trouba >>> Brodie , Gio >> Bogosian (just based on last season the year before they were equal) and Bogosian is 24 and Gio is 30. Enstrom >>>>>> Wideman. Stuart > Russell and for Morrisey there is no equivalent in the Flames Organization.

Maybe I have a case of seeing the grass being greener.... but I think that the Jets are what the Flames are going to be (trying to be?) in a few years if they don't panic and trade off their young studs (Monahan Gaudreau, Bennett and Brodie and wait for them to take over the team.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Read Only

I don't think he is in that tough of a spot. He has a mediocre to bad team with a top 6 that isn't close to good enough outside of winning an overrated contest and a top 4 defense that is pretty weak overall.

So are you suggesting a rebuild?

Originally Posted by Read Only

Kane may, key word may, have 40 goal potential but he has scored over 20 once so far in his career and maintained an attitude that really makes you question if he can take the jump that a guy like Iginla, hardest worker on the team, made.

Okay. So what if he isn't getting any great offers for Kane? Does he trade him for a player who is as good as Kane now, but won't get any better? Or keep holding out for a player with the potential of Kane?

If Winnipeg had a bigger budget they could shift into win now mode with a couple big UFA signings. They can't do that, so they have to draft their way to success. But the fans probably won't stand for a prolonged rebuild where they dip into bottom-5 range.

Sounds like a pretty tough spot to me.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ha ha ha ha you must be the life of the party in your personal life. Yes we underappreciate the difficult decisions Chevy has made regarding their goaltending position that has clearly held them back. He's a terrible GM and nobody here has once said he should conduct a fire sale. All the comments have been more to him trying to fix what's broken instead of trotting out the same group expecting different results annually.

It is actually pretty hard to understand the sort of thinking that causes a GM to fail to make a single trade that helps his team in the present, while also making the kind of trades that result in having fewer draft picks available than if he really had done nothing. He's hamstrung the Jets present and he's harming the Jets future. So in fairness to Tinordi, that is hard to appreciate.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Wow if what you say is true that makes me think that I should give up cheering for the Flames.

What Flame would break into the Jets top 6 and make it better.... There might be an argument that Monahan will turn out better than Schiefele. Now they are about even. But would Hudler be an upgrade on Little?

On the other hand any of the Jets top 6 would be in the Flames top 3.

On defense Trouba >>> Brodie , Gio >> Bogosian (just based on last season the year before they were equal) and Bogosian is 24 and Gio is 30. Enstrom >>>>>> Wideman. Stuart > Russell and for Morrisey there is no equivalent in the Flames Organization.

Maybe I have a case of seeing the grass being greener.... but I think that the Jets are what the Flames are going to be (trying to be?) in a few years if they don't panic and trade off their young studs (Monahan Gaudreau, Bennett and Brodie and wait for them to take over the team.

The Flames are currently terrible and clearly rebuilding. Being better than the Flames is not an accomplishment.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

From what I've heard, Kane marches to the beat of his own drum. Showing up late, was scratched famously and called noel out. Noel only scratched him because the rest of the team had enough. Guys like Ladd hate him and Mark Stuart almost came to blows with him. I can't see him being here by seasons end.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Wow if what you say is true that makes me think that I should give up cheering for the Flames.

What Flame would break into the Jets top 6 and make it better.... There might be an argument that Monahan will turn out better than Schiefele. Now they are about even. But would Hudler be an upgrade on Little?

On the other hand any of the Jets top 6 would be in the Flames top 3.

On defense Trouba >>> Brodie , Gio >> Bogosian (just based on last season the year before they were equal) and Bogosian is 24 and Gio is 30. Enstrom >>>>>> Wideman. Stuart > Russell and for Morrisey there is no equivalent in the Flames Organization.

Maybe I have a case of seeing the grass being greener.... but I think that the Jets are what the Flames are going to be (trying to be?) in a few years if they don't panic and trade off their young studs (Monahan Gaudreau, Bennett and Brodie and wait for them to take over the team.

The Flames are in year 2 of a rebuild and likely 3 years away from contending. The Jets have been rebuilding since they came into existence and are entering year 4 with the same basic core of doing nothing. So great for you showing that Winnipeg is better now than the 4th worst team in the league last year. The Flames roster is better than the Sabres so I guess it is time to stop the rebuild and rest on our laurels as well.

Gio>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Trouba
Brodie=Bogosian

Yes Enstrom is better than the 3rd best Calgary defenseman and there is no Morrisey in the Flames system but the Jets have no Bennett in their system and Bennett is much better than any prospect the Jets have.

But here is the comparision you should be look at the Stars, Avs and Wild are the 3 teams the Jets actually need to compare themselves against and their top 6 is weaker than all those 3. Their goaltending is much, much worse and the top 4 defense is comparable to Dallas and Colorado and worse than Minnesota.

So trump up how great the Jets look compared to the Flames all you want all that gets you is another year out of the play-offs and another year further away from contending for a Cup.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So are you suggesting a rebuild?

Maybe, but I would think a re-tool would work there. What I do know is doing nothing has got them 3 years of no play-offs and a roster that doesn't look like they are getting there next year or improving to look like a contender in the next 3-5 years.

Okay. So what if he isn't getting any great offers for Kane? Does he trade him for a player who is as good as Kane now, but won't get any better? Or keep holding out for a player with the potential of Kane?

If Winnipeg had a bigger budget they could shift into win now mode with a couple big UFA signings. They can't do that, so they have to draft their way to success. But the fans probably won't stand for a prolonged rebuild where they dip into bottom-5 range.

Sounds like a pretty tough spot to me.

If he isn't getting offers for Kane then trade Ladd or Little or Bogosian or Byfuglien or Schiefle or Burmistrov or Enstrom of Stuart.

It is hard to believe that every other team out there is getting offers for thier guys except for the Jets.

Drafting in the 8-12 range like the Jets have been since coming back seems like a pretty poor way to hope to build a contender.

But again it comes back to sitting on your hands and doing nothing so far has got Cheveldayoff finishes of 11th, 9th and 11th and a team that I think most would say doesn't look like much of a contender going forward.

Sure maybe making trades doesn't work it out but is it likely to be anyworse than the no play-offs and medicore team he has built now?

[Resolute 14]

If I may belabour the point, Ricardodw - being better than the first year of the Flames rebuild might salve your ego slightly, but your arguments really point to the kind of thinking that is going to prevent the Jets from ever competing. You're spending your time looking behind you rather than in front of you. As moon points out, you need to be looking at the teams in front of you. And son, you just don't measure up.

But if I can go back to the Flames vs. Jets comparison for a moment: Pro-rated to 82 games, Winnipeg would have finished 2012-13 with 87 points. Calgary would have been 15 points behind that, with 72. In year one of the Flames' rebuild, they already cut that difference in half. So while you are still better than the Flames, you also moved the wrong way, even against us.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

From what I've heard, Kane marches to the beat of his own drum. Showing up late, was scratched famously and called noel out. Noel only scratched him because the rest of the team had enough. Guys like Ladd hate him and Mark Stuart almost came to blows with him. I can't see him being here by seasons end.

Maybe there is a problem with Noel? I remember reading that Burmistrov called Noel out for the same thing. So you have two young players who had no idea what Noel was trying to accomplish. Sounds like a problem with the coach's communication skills.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FAN

Maybe there is a problem with Noel? I remember reading that Burmistrov called Noel out for the same thing. So you have two young players who had no idea what Noel was trying to accomplish. Sounds like a problem with the coach's communication skills.

Noel was truly a horrible coach but then again who hired him? Noel had no NHL experience and like the guy in Edmonton is a very quirky individual and if the play by both teams under them have taught us anything it's that players don't respond well to oddballs.