Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[T@T]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Sorry that should read shouldn't . They currently do fund 1/4 of there budget. My bad.

The USA does support an Israels enemy tho. Egypt. 1.5 billion dollars

Only when the western type powers are in charge, but even then we know it's only to help in tourism.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

That's a ludicrous post. From what I've read if the Israelis weren't so vigilant in their evacuation training and bunker building - the death toll would be much higher. Maybe Hamas should be using assets to protect their populace instead of using them as disposable shields.

1. Israels "Iron dome" missile defense system is what is protecting them as It intercepts the on coming rockets.

2. Maybe Hamas is not using them as sheilds. Maybe the consider it an honour in aiding the cause? We don't know.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

That's a ludicrous post. From what I've read if the Israelis weren't so vigilant in their evacuation training and bunker building - the death toll would be much higher. Maybe Hamas should be using assets to protect their populace instead of using them as disposable shields.

lu·di·crous
ˈlo͞odəkrəs/
adjective
so foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing; ridiculous.

I take a little bit of offense to that. Instead of insulting someone, could you try to think about it first?

What are they cheering? They are cheering the defence of their country. They are cheering the IDF attacks on Gaza. And what is the main, most prominent, and highest cost of these attacks? The deaths of children and innocent people. Israel's strikes on the Hamas are insignificant compared to the damage being done to Gaza

Children, women, innocents, schools, hospitals, their ability to obtain fresh water... these things are being lost. It is, ultimately, the fault of Hamas, but that is not how it is seen in Gaza. The people of Gaza aren't begging to be saved by Israel, they feel they're being attacked by Israel.

I'm still of the mind that they can cheer if they want to cheer. Both sides cheer. Palestinian civilians cheer the rockets that leave Gaza, because Israel is seen as oppressive, and many in and around the Gaza area believe they are committing genocide. Whether we think that's right or wrong, it doesn't matter what WE think.

Regardless, the cheering is a release. It's a morally misguided release, but it's still a release and in a conflict so dire and stressful to the people involved, it's fully understandable.

It needs to be said though: Israel is not killing kids on purpose, but it is killing kids. That's a simple fact. Israelis do not cheer the deaths of kids on purpose, but they do cheer the deaths of kids.

Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld says that when people hear about the downfall of an enemy, rabbis often remind them of a verse from Proverbs: “Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles.”

Just out curiosity, on a slightly different point. What's your awareness level on human shields? How do you define what it means in this context? Because a few people (including yourself) don't really seem to be using it accurately to what it means in this context.

[cal_guy]

So the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin (and the leader of the Manhigut Yehudit faction of the Likud party) is advocating the complete expulsions of all Palestinians to Egypt and the massacre of all who stay.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...6#.U8t5afldV8G

[SebC]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Yes, if the rockets stopped everything would be ok for the Palestinians. You know, like how it is for the West Bank Palestinians who get a nice reward of seeing illegal settlements being built on their land for not firing rockets and not having hamas as their government.

Come on... if you had to choose between being a Palestinian in the West Bank, and a Palestinian in Gaza, would you choose Gaza?

Stopping the rockets doesn't have to get you to a utopia to be the right move, it just has to make an improvement over the current situation.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by SebC

Come on... if you had to choose between being a Palestinian in the West Bank, and a Palestinian in Gaza, would you choose Gaza?

Stopping the rockets doesn't have to get you to a utopia to be the right move, it just has to make an improvement over the current situation.

You know what sarcasm is right?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

So the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin (and the leader of the Manhigut Yehudit faction of the Likud party) is advocating the complete expulsions of all Palestinians to Egypt and the massacre of all who stay.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...6#.U8t5afldV8G

I read what you linked...did you post the wrong article? Your comment seems way off.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

So the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin (and the leader of the Manhigut Yehudit faction of the Likud party) is advocating the complete expulsions of all Palestinians to Egypt and the massacre of all who stay.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...6#.U8t5afldV8G

Wow!

I guess nothing should surprise me when it comes to how bloodthirsty Israel can be. I'd like to see the pro-Israel group try to defend this.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

I take a little bit of offense to that. Instead of insulting someone, could you try to think about it first?

You have made numerous insulting posts...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

So the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin (and the leader of the Manhigut Yehudit faction of the Likud party) is advocating the complete expulsions of all Palestinians to Egypt and the massacre of all who stay.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...6#.U8t5afldV8G

I read the article. I can you quote the parts that talk about massacre and complete expulsion?

While I don't completely agree with his plans, it doesn't discuss massacre.

Your type if post does nothing but incite further anger and aggression.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Wow!

I guess nothing should surprise me when it comes to how bloodthirsty Israel can be. I'd like to see the pro-Israel group try to defend this.

This is amazing. One side launches unprovoked rockets at civilians, dresses children in suicide belts, is a known terrorist group, has a charter to murder every jew everywhere and is simply a death cult. Hamas has murdered more Palestinians than Jews and people like you continue to support them. If a rocket is launched from the top of a home and that home and it's occupants are destroyed by an Israeli rocket, Hamas is responsible. Hamas with certainty knew what they were hoping to accomplish - kill the occupants.

Israel says the same thing every time: Guarantee our safety and recognize us, and we can talk. Hamas fires rockets.

But to you, post after post, is about how bloodthirsty Israel is. No posts about how many Muslims have been killed by Muslims all over the place, including Gaza.

You were silent after 100s (yes, hundreds) of rockets were fired from Gaza. I am curious what you think about Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Libya and much of Africa, as people are murdered and killed in the thousands. Yet to you, Israel is bloodthirsty. To you, only Israel is held to a standard that no one else is held to. Not even the Canadian military is held to your standard.

People like you are, as I have said before, doing damage to the Palestinians. Your attempt to enable groups like Hamas by showing support and spreading lies about Israel do nothing good. They enable a group like Hamas to launch rockets and they enable Israel to defend themselves and maintain the status quo.

No violence is no violence and a pretty good start for everyone involved. With that said, Israel has a right to defend itself. Hamas is not defending itself by launching their rockets.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

...Typical Nage Waza BS....

So you can't defend what Israel is doing here and you go off and attack me personally.

Nice, I guess I didn't expect much more from you.

[Chill Cosby]

Interesting article regarding the less than innocent reasons behind this current escalation. Some interesting views by interesting people:

(apologies if it's been posted)
https://news.vice.com/article/its-dj...all-over-again

Israel’s military operations in the territory ... are in direct response to the rockets fired by Hamas into Israel — at a pace of about 145 a day, according to the IDF ... before Hamas’s rockets, there was a massive raid of Palestinian homes in the West Bank, leading to hundreds of arrests — including dozens of people who had been released as part of the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011 — and at least 10 deaths ... That ... was in response to the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers ... leading to a massive manhunt and the largest military escalation in the West Bank since the Second Intifada in the early 2000s.

"When those teens went missing, the Israelis had a choice about how to react: ... if they could convict them, punish them to the full extent of the law,” Yousef Munayyer, a Palestinian-American political analyst, told VICE News. “Instead they chose ... collective punishment that focused on Hamas as an organization, but also against Palestinians in general. That went outside of the bounds of what was necessary ... It was a deliberate provocation and one that caused the situation that we see today."

Israeli officials knew all along that the teens had been murdered after being abducted, but they kept up the “search” for several days ... “You really have to witness the force of this propaganda, people just buy this ####,” Idan Landau, Israeli scholar and commentator said. “People were angry that there was this cover-up and that the police knew that the boys were dead already, but there’s this kind of unwillingness on the part of the Israeli public to distrust their leaders.” ... the suspects in the boys’ murder — they have also blown up their homes and interrogated and arrested their family members ... Israeli officials placed the blame for the murders on Hamas, an accusation the organization has consistently denied ... though it did not condemn it either.

The murders offered Israel the opportunity to address something it had strongly opposed for weeks: a deal signed by rival Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah that culminated in the formation of a unity government on June 2 ... “I would add a conspiracy twist to it," said Middle East historian and Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi. "I think ever since the unity government was announced, Israel has been absolutely hell-bent on doing absolutely anything to pull it apart. I know this is going to sound extreme, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this rogue cell did this with the knowledge of Israeli intelligence... The point is that Israel knows very, very well that these people are not under the control of Hamas ... “The moment those kids were kidnapped, the Israeli government set up a huge deception so they could attack Hamas in the West Bank," Khalidi went on. "... arresting hundreds and hundreds of people. That horrible, racist, fascist wave of hysteria that swept over Israel was entirely the result of the manipulation of information about these poor kidnapped boys’ murder.”

Palestinian, Israeli, and foreign critics have observed ... A threat more dangerous than Hamas’s rockets — which in practical terms, are all but useless — is Palestinian unity, and a moderate partner with which Israel would have to engage.

Materially speaking, Hamas is taking a hit from Operation Protective Edge — losing rockets, people, and infrastructure. But in the long term, critics observed, the conflict will only boost its legitimacy. And, while Israeli leaders claim the opposite, that might just be what they were hoping for all along — a stronger Hamas, averting the risk of a peaceful unity, and maintaining a clear enemy.

“There’s this mantra that people are being told, that if we only finished the job last time, if you just let us do it properly this time, everything will be fine, and that’s really a myth,” Landau said. “The people in power are well aware that there’s no way to solve this militarily, but they want to preserve the myth which will justify the next operation: We never finished the job, and that’s why we have to maintain the siege, and they’re still aggressive, and we have to contain them ..."

It's a really interesting article. Lots of content, I didn't even quote a third of it I think lol. But definitely worth the read if you're looking for some perspective and for a few facts that don't pop up in this thread too often.

[The Ditch]

Israel is literally slaughtering hundreds of civilians including children right now, levelling people's homes, destroying hospitals, destroying entire blocks. They are shooting fish in a barrel with advanced military equipment with impunity. These Palestinians have nowhere to go, homes destroyed, lives destroyed. Israeli's are sitting on beaches watching this, laughing, having parties. Through all of this Nage is militantly defending everything Israel is/has done, he's quite the piece of work.

Hopefully the international community will step in and help put an end to this disgusting "operation" of Israel's.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So you can't defend what Israel is doing here and you go off and attack me personally.

Nice, I guess I didn't expect much more from you.

Did you read the article?

No where does it discussion expulsion or massacre.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Did you read the article?

No where does it discussion expulsion or massacre.

I don't know if you're being intentionally dense here. Seriously read it again.

1 - Ultimatum - Get the people of Gaza to leave to Sinai (expulsion)

2 - Attack - Essentially attack everything the IDF wants without consideration for who's in there (massacre)

3 - Siege - Nothing comes in, everyone is allowed out though (expulsion)

4 - Conquer - Conquer Gaza and use all military means to secure occupation without consideration for anything else. (massacre)

5 - Elimination - Eliminate all armed combatants and allow everyone else to leave (expulsion)

6 - Sovereignty - Make Gaza part of Israel because God gave it to the Jews and the Arabs shouldn't have been there in the first place. Plus it fixes Israel's housing problem. (expulsion)

Plus there's a few references in the original document that define Gazans as "the enemy population".

[Flash Walken]

The Israeli military is using flechette shells, which spray out thousands of tiny and potentially lethal metal darts, in its military operation in Gaza.

Six flechette shells were fired towards the village of Khuzaa, east of Khan Younis, on 17 July, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Nahla Khalil Najjar, 37, suffered injuries to her chest, it said. PCHR provided a picture of flechettes taken by a fieldworker last week.

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The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) did not deny using the shells in the conflict. "As a rule, the IDF only employs weapons that have been determined lawful under international law, and in a manner which fully conforms with the laws of armed conflict," a spokesperson said in response to a request for specific comment on the deployment of flechettes.

B'Tselem, an Israeli human rights organisation, describes a flechette shell as "an anti-personnel weapon that is generally fired from a tank. The shell explodes in the air and releases thousands of metal darts 37.5mm in length, which disperse in a conical arch 300 metres long and about 90 metres wide".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...shells-in-gaza

White phosphorus and shrapnel shells in densely populated areas.

I know captaincrunch is particularly abhorrent of the "ball bearings" in the rockets used by Hamas.

Surely, flechette rounds will illicit an even stronger reaction from him.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

Israel is literally slaughtering hundreds of civilians including children right now, levelling people's homes, destroying hospitals, destroying entire blocks. They are shooting fish in a barrel with advanced military equipment with impunity. These Palestinians have nowhere to go, homes destroyed, lives destroyed. Israeli's are sitting on beaches watching this, laughing, having parties. Through all of this Nage is militantly defending everything Israel is/has done, he's quite the piece of work.

Hopefully the international community will step in and help put an end to this disgusting "operation" of Israel's.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes they are

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...cle-1.1871699#

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...r-gaza-bombing

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yes they are

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...cle-1.1871699#

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...r-gaza-bombing

Yeah....ummmm hitting military targets and cheering that occurance is a LOOOOOONG way from "sitting on beaches, laughing and having parties".

But keep the nonsensical hyperbole up...it really helps in civil discourse.