That sounds like recognizing Israel is negotiable.
Unless there's something else in there that I didn't catch, it seems like Hamas wants to put down its weapons and negotiate.
Sounds more like a demand to me. They are demanding full recognition and then they will think about recognizing Israel. Sorry that's just not the way it works when you are constantly pledging to destroy your more powerful neighbor.
Because of my place of birth and ancestry, I'm one of the people that you've thrown the tarp over. I really do think you owe the board an apology for the ignorance displayed in the bolded sentence.
About a different case, but I think this is where he was coming from.
Generalizations(and exaggerations) are made by both sides all the time. In order to make a convincing argument people over state the truth. No one owes you anything! Of course that argument is more than flawed, but the majority of muslims in just about every country in the middle east have hostile feelings towards Israel. Yes, 80% of those people are peaceful people that wouldn't hurt a fly, nor would they actually want a war with Israel; but they are not the ones that drive the foreign policy.
Generalizations(and exaggerations) are made by both sides all the time. In order to make a convincing argument people over state the truth. No one owes you anything! Of course that argument is more than flawed, but the majority of muslims in just about every country in the middle east have hostile feelings towards Israel. Yes, 80% of those people are peaceful people that wouldn't hurt a fly, nor would they actually want a war with Israel; but they are not the ones that drive the foreign policy.
I feel like there's probably a word in English for people who make broad, sweeping statements about a large group of people. Give me a few minutes to pull up my dictionary app...
Also, I have no idea what is going on with the math and logic in your post. I apologize.
I feel like there's probably a word in English for people who make broad, sweeping statements about a large group of people. Give me a few minutes to pull up my dictionary app...
Also, I have no idea what is going on with the math and logic in your post. I apologize.
Seemed like a pretty rational, accurate thought to me. What points do you disagree with? I think its safe to say the majority of Arab Muslims are not fans of Israel.
The majority of people don't give two sh##s and just want to go on living their lives in peace. Politics and extremists with loud voices are the ones you hear from, not the regular families living in suburbs.
Sounds more like a demand to me. They are demanding full recognition and then they will think about recognizing Israel. Sorry that's just not the way it works when you are constantly pledging to destroy your more powerful neighbor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
I guess it's in interpretation. I took it as "ask me if we recognize them once we get our nation". Which is absolutely no promise of anything
I'm firmly against how Israel has acted, but I find Hamas to be far more disingenuous
Like I said before, that can all be negotiated.
What happened the last time a Palestinian group decided to lay down its weapons and recognize Israel without any preconditions? More settlement building and a lack of mutual recognition from the other side. Excuse me if I understand where Hamas is coming from on this point.
Seemed like a pretty rational, accurate thought to me. What points do you disagree with? I think its safe to say the majority of Arab Muslims are not fans of Israel.
It's islamaphobia.
The Following User Says Thank You to Flash Walken For This Useful Post:
The trouble though is both sides are mostly unwilling to compromise from their ideal (Hamas specifically)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
Israel has been an occupying force for decades and Hamas has been in 'power' for years, but it is specifically Hamas who is unwilling to compromise?
Incredible standards being applied in this thread.
I think I wasn't clear enough. I meant Israel and Hamas but didn't want to include the other Palestinian Parties. When I said "specifically Hamas" I was referring to the Palestinians
What happened the last time a Palestinian group decided to lay down its weapons and recognize Israel without any preconditions? More settlement building and a lack of mutual recognition from the other side. Excuse me if I understand where Hamas is coming from on this point.
I'm not saying I disagree, but that's still not really a compromise.
Seemed like a pretty rational, accurate thought to me. What points do you disagree with? I think its safe to say the majority of Arab Muslims are not fans of Israel.
CaptainYooh's post was anything but rational. S/He made horribly inaccurate conflations between Arabs and Muslims, seems to have little idea about the populations of each, but miraculously has his fingers intricately on the pulse of their thought processes.
gvitaly's post says that the majority of muslims in just about every middle east country have hostile feelings towards Israel, but somehow 80% of those people* would never hurt a fly, don't want a war, and don't drive foreign policy. Sorry, but that's a bunch of flawed numbers and muddled logic if I've ever seen it.
As for the disgusting sweeping generalizations on this board regarding middle easterners and muslims and arabs**, I don't know one person in my family or broad circle of friends that hate Israel or wish hostility towards it, despite their participation in many of those classifications. I'm certain that Israelis share an analogous feeling of abhorring hostility and violence and racism. I guess my experience is different from CaptainYooh's? But just to do my part in resolving this conflict, I would gladly pay for CaptainYooh's flight to a couple of countries in the middle east so that he could inform my family members, friends, and friends of friends, face to face, that they're not toeing the middle eastern / arab / muslim line and should change their thought process. I'm sure they would appreciate the clarity and do their best to remedy their misconceptions.
---
* I don't know which "those" s/he specifically referred to as the sentence structure does not make it clear. In either context, the numbers and logic don't work.
** Gosh, where are all the 'I wish I could see all the posters supporting Palestine refute their horrible attitudes and tactics' crowd in calling out the ignorance displayed by CaptainYooh? Or is that a revelation of the truly childish game that it is?
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Flames Fan, Ph.D. For This Useful Post:
What do you want them to do? If it's being used for military purposes, it's a military target. You can't just write your opponent a blank cheque to fire at your from "civilian" sites.
What do you propose? Should Hamas have a sectioned off area for rockets so they could invite the best fighter jets in the world to bomb them to shreds? Honestly, use common sense.
Should Palestinians write Israel a blank cheque to continue killing their children and other innocent civilians?
Quote:
Yeah, before Hamas there was suicide bombings. Hence the wall. If Isreal gave Palestine statehood, they'd be at war with the new state as soon as the first rockets launched - it's not a solution.
Wow, that's a pretty long history lesson. I didn't realize suicide bombings was the only reason the wall was put up and all borders closed. I wonder what made people feel the urge to blow themselves up.
CaptainYooh's post was anything but rational. S/He made horribly inaccurate conflations between Arabs and Muslims, seems to have little idea about the populations of each, but miraculously has his fingers intricately on the pulse of their thought processes.
gvitaly's post says that the majority of muslims in just about every middle east country have hostile feelings towards Israel, but somehow 80% of those people* would never hurt a fly, don't want a war, and don't drive foreign policy. Sorry, but that's a bunch of flawed numbers and muddled logic if I've ever seen it.
As for the disgusting sweeping generalizations on this board regarding middle easterners and muslims and arabs**, I don't know one person in my family or broad circle of friends that hate Israel or wish hostility towards it, despite their participation in many of those classifications. I'm certain that Israelis share an analogous feeling of abhorring hostility and violence and racism. I guess my experience is different from CaptainYooh's? But just to do my part in resolving this conflict, I would gladly pay for CaptainYooh's flight to a couple of countries in the middle east so that he could inform my family members, friends, and friends of friends, face to face, that they're not toeing the middle eastern / arab / muslim line and should change their thought process. I'm sure they would appreciate the clarity and do their best to remedy their misconceptions.
---
* I don't know which "those" s/he specifically referred to as the sentence structure does not make it clear. In either context, the numbers and logic don't work.
** Gosh, where are all the 'I wish I could see all the posters supporting Palestine refute their horrible attitudes and tactics' crowd in calling out the ignorance displayed by CaptainYooh? Or is that a revelation of the truly childish game that it is?
Alright, let me be more clear in what I am trying to say.
The majority of muslims around the world don't really care about Israel;However, when discussing Israeli policies they will be more inclined to treat those policies with hostility(and anger).
Those muslims are not the ones that determine the foreign policy of their countries around the middle east.
Saddam Hussein's dream(Iraq)- end to the Zionist nightmare.
Ahmadinejad(Iran)- Israel should be eradicated off the face of the Earth.
Nasrallah(leader of Hezbollah, Lebanon)- Israel was “a cancerous growth” that had to be wiped out, he said. “The only solution is to destroy it without giving it the opportunity to surrender.
Haniyeh(leader of Hamas)-Goal is destruction of Israel in stages.
The muslims that happen to hold the weapons in their hands and use them, are the ones saying the above statements.
Until the muslim world starts publicly condemning such statements, and actively fighting against those policies I consider them to support them. Have you noticed how easily such proclamations are just shrugged off?!
Just like the proclamations, missiles towards Israel seem to get overlooked to for some reason, just because the other side has more losses? The missiles are even justified just because they don't do as much damage...
So yes a generalization of all muslims are wrong. It is done because passive support of terrorist actions is still support. Think for yourself how often do you actually publicly condemned the shootings of rockets toward Israel without the word BUT at the end(and without trying to explain or justify it).
Wow, that's a pretty long history lesson. I didn't realize suicide bombings was the only reason the wall was put up and all borders closed. I wonder what made people feel the urge to blow themselves up.
Again, this conflict keeps going back to chicken and egg questions. I cannot blame Israel for putting up walls when suicide bombers were blowing up their people. Obviously they were blowing up people for a reason. You're just as guilty of viewing one act in isolation as the poster you quoted. A Mexican standoff never gets resolved if both sides say we'll put down our guns if they do
