Bush - Kerry

[kipperfan]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied+Oct 14 2004, 02:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bertuzzied @ Oct 14 2004, 02:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Bush has come out firmly against that NUMEROUS times

They guy is a jerk-off, but even he is to smart for that, thats a political backbreaker in this, the 21st century.

Of course he's going to deny it. He's a politician. How can the US without the support of any significant country control Iraq with their existing base of soldiers? Hmmm i guess they could pull convicts out of prison and send them to Iraq. What a mess.

Hehehe bush was in charge of border partrols before? He now has 2 part time officers partolling the coast line of Oregon instead of 1. [/b][/quote]
beacuse hes a politician=hes lying (good logic!)

Iggnorance. I hate bush. But anyone(even I) with half a brain knows g.bush would NEVER impose a draft.

[kermitology]

Originally posted by kipperfan@Oct 13 2004, 08:39 PM
beacuse hes a politician=hes lying (good logic!)

Iggnorance. I hate bush. But anyone(even I) with half a brain knows g.bush would NEVER impose a draft.

If you take Bush's statement about the only way to relieve the NG and Reserves as winning the war in Iraq, then you may see a draft to get that done. Not likely, but it is a possibility if the new Iraqi armies can't get the job done. The US is in such a tricky situation, they can't pull out all together, and they can't stay all together. Though one might wonder what would happen if the US pulled out entirely.. You could argue that the only reason there is still fighting in parts of Iraq is simply because of the US presence.

[kipperfan]

Originally posted by kermitology+Oct 14 2004, 02:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kermitology @ Oct 14 2004, 02:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kipperfan@Oct 13 2004, 08:39 PM
beacuse hes a politician=hes lying (good logic!)

Iggnorance. I hate bush. But anyone(even I) with half a brain knows g.bush would NEVER impose a draft.

If you take Bush's statement about the only way to relieve the NG and Reserves as winning the war in Iraq, then you may see a draft to get that done. Not likely, but it is a possibility if the new Iraqi armies can't get the job done. The US is in such a tricky situation, they can't pull out all together, and they can't stay all together. Though one might wonder what would happen if the US pulled out entirely.. You could argue that the only reason there is still fighting in parts of Iraq is simply because of the US presence. [/b][/quote]
If you think theyll draft, ill disagree.

Bush will yank the forces if thats what it comes to, look back into history, when it gets tough america doesnt draft, they pull out(vietnam as expception where they eventuallly did both)

[kermitology]

Originally posted by kipperfan@Oct 13 2004, 08:53 PM
Bush will yank the forces if thats what it comes to, look back into history, when it gets tough america doesnt draft, they pull out(vietnam as expception where they eventuallly did both)

Fair enough, but this is Bush, do you really think he'd take that slap in the face? He'd never live that day down.

[kipperfan]

Originally posted by kermitology+Oct 14 2004, 02:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kermitology @ Oct 14 2004, 02:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kipperfan@Oct 13 2004, 08:53 PM
Bush will yank the forces if thats what it comes to, look back into history, when it gets tough america doesnt draft, they pull out(vietnam as expception where they eventuallly did both)

Fair enough, but this is Bush, do you really think he'd take that slap in the face? He'd never live that day down. [/b][/quote]
your prob right, bush does love that ego

[arsenal]

Bush will not pull the forces out untill he is sure that the Iraqi forces and government are in power. If he does, then he has screwed the US even more. He is smarter than that.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Oct 14 2004, 02:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Oct 14 2004, 02:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@Oct 14 2004, 01:36 AM

Lanny, do you know what the electoral college is? You're talking as if it's some group of elitists that hold the fate of a nation in their hands.

No Dis, explain it to me. [/b][/quote]
Good answer.

Just answer the question or explain why you were using the term in the context you were using it. Clarity is all I seek.

[Cowboy]

Well I didn't get a chance to see the first debate. I thought the second debate's format played into Bush's favor, seems more personal.

Bush kind of got killed in this last debate, but I don't believe it is all his fault. Many of the questions were set for him to fail...economy, health care, rich vs. poor. I find that debates usually do fall in favor of the more liberal. However as we know, it is easier for liberal look better because many of their policies pull on the heart strings of the people. However, Republicans/Conservatives seem to have a very realistic view, and it doesn't always come across as the fair, and morally right thing to do.

Bush, I believe, has to control his facial expressions, he looks like a kid getting made fun of in front of the classroom. He also needs to brush up on his debating skills, more work on it may also cure the uncomfortable look he had on his face for the majority of the night.

[kermitology]

From the parts that I watched, the strength of Kerry seemed to be his definitive answers, compared to Bush being vague about everything.

Bush kept backtracking to policies that he's instituted, but that doesn't really answer the question.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Huh. CNN said Kerry took this debate too, completing the hatrick it would appear...

[Thunderball]

If anything, I'd say Kerry never answered a single question with anything other than pure bs.

Bush is constantly on the defensive and it seems to be a good place to keep him if you are running against them.

I only hope American voters are smarter than Canadian voters and vote for the guy who at least has a plan, and doesn't just say, "I have a BETTER PLAN!!! Bush is a jerk..." or in Canada's case... "We didn't steal any money... really... we're trustworthy... HARPER IS A REDNECK FASCIST!!"

My debate prognosis:
1. Kerry
2. Bush
3. close, but Kerry... questions were definitely slanted though.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Oct 14 2004, 03:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Oct 14 2004, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

No Dis, explain it to me.

Good answer.

Just answer the question or explain why you were using the term in the context you were using it. Clarity is all I seek. [/b][/quote]
Yes Dis, I am well aware of how the Electoral college works.

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Oct 13 2004, 09:28 PM


I only hope American voters are smarter than Canadian voters

I always wonder about comments about these...why is every one else dumb because you don't like the way Canada voted...

Not to mention by telling everyone to vote Bush you are essentially being hypocritical...Bush lied to his country too...and went to war because of it. You being conservative is the reason why you think Liberal people are dumb, not because you thought the Liberals didn't deserve to be there because they lied...
Tackle the real issues!!!! If you are going to say why people should vote for Bush/Harper and not Kerry/Martin

[kermitology]

Loved seeing the moderator on The Daily Show asking Jon Stewart to come up with a question for him. Stewart trying to be slightly objective declined.. It's so much easier to make fun of Bush :P

Kerry may have answered with BS, but he answered. From what I saw, he took it.

[Cowperson]

A fairly boring debate with some bizarre questions. As the New York Times scrolling debate tracker asked rhetorically near the end: "Anyone still with me?"

Kerry was really thumping the Bible just as his handlers said he would in the latter days of the campaign, obviously realizing that, right or wrong, there's a much larger constituency of voters in America who like that kind of thing in their leader than in any other major industrialized country on the planet.

Bush's heartfelt and genuine plea as to why he includes God in his everyday life and decision making probably won the point, if you think that's important and about 70% of Americans apparently do according to one poll.

There's a sizeable portion of the American electorate who will be voting for the candidate with the greatest spiritual leaning and, politically, its not to be scoffed at.

As to who won the night I think it really depends on the message you wanted to hear. Both performed well enough. Each side will claim a win.

As George Will said tonight, its bizarre a candidate would look directly into the camera and plead that a government bill on medicare that he promises to sponsor will not be a government program. Bush's dart about Kerry being left of Ted Kennedy will stick with a few people as well since they might be iffy on where Kerry stands but they're not iffy on where Kennedy is.

And what's up with Bush and that bizarre "Yuck, yuck, yuck" kind of laugh. That might have cost him the night right there.

I thought Kerry was weak early on and stronger later. He probably kept his momentum which means he denied a shift back to Bush. That would make him a winner.

About 10% of those watching haven't made up their minds. The only real question is: "Who do THEY think won?" They're the only people who matter now.

The polls two or three days from now will be quite interesting.

If you take Bush's statement about the only way to relieve the NG and Reserves as winning the war in Iraq, then you may see a draft to get that done. Not likely, but it is a possibility if the new Iraqi armies can't get the job done.

If Iraqi's don't take ownership of the situation then its a defeat like Vietnam plain and simple . . . . only without the 56,000 or so American dead and without a helicopter from the roof. Okay, maybe a couple of fast cars heading to Jordon. If 24 million Iraqi's don't want them there, then nothing can keep them there. That's just the bottom line fact. The key hurdle to empowerment of Iraqi's, the key to them beginning the process of taking control of thes situation, as with Afghanistan, is free and fair elections with most or all of the country participating. You saw the simple power of that in Afghanistan on the weekend. I don't see it being delayed.

Cowperson

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by Cowboy+Oct 13 2004, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowboy @ Oct 13 2004, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunderball@Oct 13 2004, 09:28 PM


I only hope American voters are smarter than Canadian voters

I always wonder about comments about these...why is every one else dumb because you don't like the way Canada voted...

Not to mention by telling everyone to vote Bush you are essentially being hypocritical...Bush lied to his country too...and went to war because of it. You being conservative is the reason why you think Liberal people are dumb, not because you thought the Liberals didn't deserve to be there because they lied...
Tackle the real issues!!!! If you are going to say why people should vote for Bush/Harper and not Kerry/Martin [/b][/quote]
You're right... I guess I expect people to not vote for parties that are corrupt and proven to be either completely financially inept or crooked.

Whether or not Bush lied is nothing but heresay unless you can provide real records that prove there was nothing and Bush still went for it... and don't say Michael Moore or Hans Blix because even he admitted he could be wrong and the Americans right.

I am fairly conservative, I won't hide it... but I'm also a political realist. Logically people are supposed to be outraged when a party is caught red-handed with its hand in the cookie jar... alledged corruption is always assumed with any party, but they got caught, period.

I can accept hardcore Liberals still voting Liberal, in fact, I expect and respect it. What I can't abide is the stumbling masses who are supposed to be the swing vote between us loyal Tories and loyal Grits who say just garbage as, "well, I would have voted Conservative if they had a better leader... you know, some one from Ontario or Quebec." (ignoring Harper is Ontarian by birth) Or, well, I didn't pay attention to the news, but I don't like Americans and Harper says he doesn't hate them... or, well, I still have a job, and get regular "pork" from the government, who cares about scandals, poor governance, or, the one I hate the most, I don't like change.

[troutman]

It's in place now because my vote should count for something

Sure, but should it count more than someone's vote in a more populous state? I assume you live in a smaller, rural state. That is not democracy if all votes are not equal. I don't know what the term for it would be. Ruralocracy?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/13/...main/index.html

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released shortly after the debate indicated that more who watched it thought Kerry did a better job. Among the poll's 511 respondents, 53 percent said Kerry did better, and 39 percent said Bush did.

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Thunderball+Oct 13 2004, 09:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Thunderball @ Oct 13 2004, 09:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I always wonder about comments about these...why is every one else dumb because you don't like the way Canada voted...

Not to mention by telling everyone to vote Bush you are essentially being hypocritical...Bush lied to his country too...and went to war because of it. You being conservative is the reason why you think Liberal people are dumb, not because you thought the Liberals didn't deserve to be there because they lied...
Tackle the real issues!!!! If you are going to say why people should vote for Bush/Harper and not Kerry/Martin

You're right... I guess I expect people to not vote for parties that are corrupt and proven to be either completely financially inept or crooked.

Whether or not Bush lied is nothing but heresay unless you can provide real records that prove there was nothing and Bush still went for it... and don't say Michael Moore or Hans Blix because even he admitted he could be wrong and the Americans right.

I am fairly conservative, I won't hide it... but I'm also a political realist. Logically people are supposed to be outraged when a party is caught red-handed with its hand in the cookie jar... alledged corruption is always assumed with any party, but they got caught, period.

I can accept hardcore Liberals still voting Liberal, in fact, I expect and respect it. What I can't abide is the stumbling masses who are supposed to be the swing vote between us loyal Tories and loyal Grits who say just garbage as, "well, I would have voted Conservative if they had a better leader... you know, some one from Ontario or Quebec." (ignoring Harper is Ontarian by birth) Or, well, I didn't pay attention to the news, but I don't like Americans and Harper says he doesn't hate them... or, well, I still have a job, and get regular "pork" from the government, who cares about scandals, poor governance, or, the one I hate the most, I don't like change. [/b][/quote]
Well by this logic I am sure you won't be voting for Ralph Klein....

Ok who am I kidding you will. But our Conservatives our Alberta conservatives are pretty corrupt themselves, didn't 80mil just go missing for our Health Care...Why don't you say you vote the way you do because you are Conservative...rather than saying everyone else is dumb for voting Liberal

Edit - Actually I seem to remember you not being from Alberta, and if that is the case your point stands. However many other Albertans say the exact same thing as you and turn around and vote Conservative in Alberta. The person I vote for is the person who best represents my principals.

[Cowperson]

A debate fact check is already up.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/13/...heck/index.html

Cowperson

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by Cowboy+Oct 13 2004, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowboy @ Oct 13 2004, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

You're right... I guess I expect people to not vote for parties that are corrupt and proven to be either completely financially inept or crooked.

Whether or not Bush lied is nothing but heresay unless you can provide real records that prove there was nothing and Bush still went for it... and don't say Michael Moore or Hans Blix because even he admitted he could be wrong and the Americans right.

I am fairly conservative, I won't hide it... but I'm also a political realist. Logically people are supposed to be outraged when a party is caught red-handed with its hand in the cookie jar... alledged corruption is always assumed with any party, but they got caught, period.

I can accept hardcore Liberals still voting Liberal, in fact, I expect and respect it. What I can't abide is the stumbling masses who are supposed to be the swing vote between us loyal Tories and loyal Grits who say just garbage as, "well, I would have voted Conservative if they had a better leader... you know, some one from Ontario or Quebec." (ignoring Harper is Ontarian by birth) Or, well, I didn't pay attention to the news, but I don't like Americans and Harper says he doesn't hate them... or, well, I still have a job, and get regular "pork" from the government, who cares about scandals, poor governance, or, the one I hate the most, I don't like change.

Well by this logic I am sure you won't be voting for Ralph Klein....

Ok who am I kidding you will. But our Conservatives our Alberta conservatives are pretty corrupt themselves, didn't 80mil just go missing for our Health Care...Why don't you say you vote the way you do because you are Conservative...rather than saying everyone else is dumb for voting Liberal

Edit - Actually I seem to remember you not being from Alberta, and if that is the case your point stands. However many other Albertans say the exact same thing as you and turn around and vote Conservative in Alberta. The person I vote for is the person who best represents my principals. [/b][/quote]
Actually, I am Albertan, born and raised... but I am NOT going to vote for Ralph... right now, I'm either gonna vote Separatist or Alberta Alliance.