Bush - Kerry

[troutman]

Will the debate tonight decide the election?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/13/...main/index.html

President Bush and Democratic rival Sen. John Kerry square off Wednesday night in Tempe, Arizona, for the last in their series of what have been bare-knuckle debates.

The 90-minute debate on domestic issues comes 20 days before voters go to the polls November 2 and could be a turning point in the race, which national polls show is neck and neck

The encounter, moderated by Bob Schieffer of CBS News, is scheduled to begin at 9 p.m. ET.

[Cowperson]

One pundit on some network made an interesting point the other day.

He said Carter/Reagan went into the final weekend before the election in 1980 in a statistical dead heat as well and folks sat down over the dinner table in those few days and said: "Okay, I gotta start thinking about this."

Reagan won by a healthy margin a few days later.

The pundit predicted something similar will happen in this election, the question at the dinner table being: "Do I vote for what I know about or do I vote for the unknown?"

Having noted the comparison above, however, I think its quite apparent that 90%of the people voting in this election have already made up their mind., which is probably quite a bit different than in 1980.

This is about the 10% who haven't and who will get them on election day.

Cowperson

[Bingo]

I saw a clip yesterday that really broke down the battle states ... something like Kerry needs to win one of Ohio or Florida or he doesn't have a chance. He may need to win both if Bush takes Wisconsin as the polls currently suggest.

We are in for a really interesting couple of weeks.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

I think Bush is going to get back in easily on the Electoral College vote. The Bible Belt is the difference. They are completely blind to what Bush has done or said over the past three years and made up their minds 40 years ago. For people that claim to be so morally straight, they sure do have some funny ways of displaying their moral fabric.

I do think that Kerry stands a very good chance at carrying the popular vote, like Gore did. Bush has divided the population of this country, but has managed to keep the Electoral College happy. I guess $136 billion is a good thank you to them, and good screw you to the little guy.

[troutman]

The case against the Electoral College:

http://www.fairvote.org/op_eds/electoral_college.htm

A candidate who lost the popular vote may have been elected president. To remedy this clearly undemocratic result and the general problem of most states being entirely ignored because they are not competitive, the Center advocates a direct popular election with a majority requirement

http://www.sidems.org/electoral.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College

Supporters of direct election argue that it would give everyone an equal vote, regardless of which part of the country they live in, and oppose giving disproportionately amplified voting power to voters in small states. In contrast, the Electoral College disenfranchises those voters in every state who cast their votes for the candidate receiving fewer votes in that state. And it also partly disenfranchises voters in larger states by reducing their proportional contribution to the final election result.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 13 2004, 11:06 AM
The case against the Electoral College:

http://www.fairvote.org/op_eds/electoral_college.htm

A candidate who lost the popular vote may have been elected president. To remedy this clearly undemocratic result and the general problem of most states being entirely ignored because they are not competitive, the Center advocates a direct popular election with a majority requirement

http://www.sidems.org/electoral.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College

Supporters of direct election argue that it would give everyone an equal vote, regardless of which part of the country they live in, and oppose giving disproportionately amplified voting power to voters in small states. In contrast, the Electoral College disenfranchises those voters in every state who cast their votes for the candidate receiving fewer votes in that state. And it also partly disenfranchises voters in larger states by reducing their proportional contribution to the final election result.

Is there still a case for the electoral college? The original reason behind it was that direct election would have been impossible in the era before long-distance communications, was it not?

Edit: Found this explanation in the 2nd link:

The framers decided to have the President chosen via the indirect method of the Electoral College rather than by direct popular vote because the majority of them were highly suspicious of the average person's ability to make a knowledgeable and dispassionate choice. This suspicion of the average person has no place in the world of the twenty-first century where people are much better educated and have access to much more information than did their counterparts of 1787.

[Bingo]

Man ... thanks for the comments guys.

Are you two capable of a discussion without spewing venom? I didn't make a single comment for or against Bush.

The rules are the rules, I don't think you can blame bush for the college system.

[KevanGuy]

ANyone watching? I'm flipping between the deabate, Seinfeld and the Hitmen game. Seems like the regualr jibba jabber. Any clear 'winner' thus far?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Yes, there's a case for the electoral college.

It's in place now because my vote should count for something. If we did this just on popular vote there would be about 8 or 9 states involved in every election and the rest of us would be irrelevant.

I've pointed this out half a dozen times in the last couple of months. Anyone want to try to actually understand it this time instead of ignoring it?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Oct 13 2004, 04:46 PM
I think Bush is going to get back in easily on the Electoral College vote. The Bible Belt is the difference. They are completely blind to what Bush has done or said over the past three years and made up their minds 40 years ago. For people that claim to be so morally straight, they sure do have some funny ways of displaying their moral fabric.

I do think that Kerry stands a very good chance at carrying the popular vote, like Gore did. Bush has divided the population of this country, but has managed to keep the Electoral College happy. I guess $136 billion is a good thank you to them, and good screw you to the little guy.

Lanny, do you know what the electoral college is? You're talking as if it's some group of elitists that hold the fate of a nation in their hands.

[arsenal]

I am watching. Bush has had a goober on the side of his mouth for about the last 10-15 minutes so far.

One question: What is the reason for the shortage of the flu vaccine?
Bush said (paraphrased) that the supplier in England was sending contaminated vaccine's over.
Kerry went on a rant about how under Bush millions of people lost their medicade.
Answer the bloody question..

I think Bush is doing fine. But then I thought Bush won the second debate. But then I am biased. B)

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Oct 14 2004, 01:36 AM

Lanny, do you know what the electoral college is? You're talking as if it's some group of elitists that hold the fate of a nation in their hands.

No Dis, explain it to me.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by arsenal@Oct 14 2004, 01:39 AM
I am watching. Bush has had a goober on the side of his mouth for about the last 10-15 minutes so far.

One question: What is the reason for the shortage of the flu vaccine?
Bush said (paraphrased) that the supplier in England was sending contaminated vaccine's over.
Kerry went on a rant about how under Bush millions of people lost their medicade.
Answer the bloody question..

I think Bush is doing fine. But then I thought Bush won the second debate. But then I am biased. B)

Bush is getting killed. He's been caught in three major lies in the first half hour. Kerry is carrying the debate and Bush is looking constipated again. Bush is back peddling like crazy and Kerry is taking questions in stride. He doesn't look flustered. Bush looks like he's reaching for every single answer.

[Bertuzzied]

God this war president is like Rambo. He doesn't give a rats ass what other countries think. Just invade first and decide later. At least he didn't mention poland as his staunch supporter. No sane nation will support him in Iraq now.


Can anyone say DRAFT in the US?

[kipperfan]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied@Oct 14 2004, 02:13 AM
God this war president is like Rambo. He doesn't give a rats ass what other countries think. Just invade first and decide later. At least he didn't mention poland as his staunch supporter. No sane nation will support him in Iraq now.


Can anyone say DRAFT in the US?

Bush has come out firmly against that NUMEROUS times

They guy is a jerk-off, but even he is to smart for that, thats a political backbreaker in this, the 21st century.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by kipperfan+Oct 14 2004, 02:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kipperfan @ Oct 14 2004, 02:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bertuzzied@Oct 14 2004, 02:13 AM
God this war president is like Rambo. He doesn't give a rats ass what other countries think. Just invade first and decide later. At least he didn't mention poland as his staunch supporter. No sane nation will support him in Iraq now.


Can anyone say DRAFT in the US?

Bush has come out firmly against that NUMEROUS times

They guy is a jerk-off, but even he is to smart for that, thats a political backbreaker in this, the 21st century. [/b][/quote]
Of course he's going to deny it. He's a politician. How can the US without the support of any significant country control Iraq with their existing base of soldiers? Hmmm i guess they could pull convicts out of prison and send them to Iraq. What a mess.

Hehehe bush was in charge of border partrols before? He now has 2 part time officers partolling the coast line of Oregon instead of 1.

[Incinerator]

Anyone noticed that Kerry & Bush are wearing the same tie (looks kinda like the same suit too) haha, who's copying who? lol...

[arsenal]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Oct 13 2004, 07:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Oct 13 2004, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-arsenal@Oct 14 2004, 01:39 AM
I am watching. Bush has had a goober on the side of his mouth for about the last 10-15 minutes so far.

One question: What is the reason for the shortage of the flu vaccine?
Bush said (paraphrased) that the supplier in England was sending contaminated vaccine's over.
Kerry went on a rant about how under Bush millions of people lost their medicade.
Answer the bloody question..

I think Bush is doing fine. But then I thought Bush won the second debate. But then I am biased. B)

Bush is getting killed. He's been caught in three major lies in the first half hour. Kerry is carrying the debate and Bush is looking constipated again. Bush is back peddling like crazy and Kerry is taking questions in stride. He doesn't look flustered. Bush looks like he's reaching for every single answer. [/b][/quote]
It is easy to take questions in stride when they are "floated" to you.
1 question in particular was the assult weapons ban. Under than ban, you could still buy an assult weapon weapon. It just couldn't have a folding stock.

Ok, but I can still buy an AK-47 legally as long as it has a wooden stock, even under that ban.

The federal assault weapons ban (AWB) prohibits the manufacture and sale of specific models of military-style firearms. Despite the ban, many gun manufacturers have evaded the law by making minor modifications to banned weapons. The Bushmaster XM-15 used by the Washington DC-area snipers is one example of an assault weapon that remains legal, even under the ban.

Taken from this site:link

If some one wants an illegal weapon, they are going to get one. They already don't care about laws.

[Bertuzzied]

Ding Ding. In the final question of the day Bush admits his wife would make a better president than he would. We finally agree on something!

[KevanGuy]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied@Oct 13 2004, 08:13 PM
Can anyone say DRAFT in the US?

Do you honestly believe that or are you just being ignorant?