[Signing] Flames sign Deryk Engelland (3yrs, $2.9M AAV)

[swo2k1]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Didn't compare them...other than the spot they filled on the roster and were not good enough to make the team a winner (playoffs).

Is Raymond going to bring in a 3rd round pick next trade deadline? The Leafs couldn't move him last deadline. I would be okay with that but don't see anyone picking up his contract.

Right now Stempniak is available for no assets... other teams don't see him as their #6 forward.

Couldn't move him? They were in the first wild card spot on March 5, I doubt very much they tried to move him at all.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by neo45

That kind of proves my point. All of those guys are UFAs and will need to be negotiated with by the time Engellands contract is off the books. And if you don't think agents use other guys contracts in negotiations you are kidding yourself...

Sure they do but if they are using Engllands deal then good for the Flames.

"Hey Brodie you want Englland money here you go 2.9 a year no problem."

"Hey #6 UFA defenseman you want 2.9 or nothing see ya we will sign the 8 other guys out there."

How did NYR sign anyone after giving Gomez his deal? Has TB been screwed after the Vinny deal?

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Didn't compare them...other than the spot they filled on the roster and were not good enough to make the team a winner (playoffs).

Is Raymond going to bring in a 3rd round pick next trade deadline? The Leafs couldn't move him last deadline. I would be okay with that but don't see anyone picking up his contract.

Right now Stempniak is available for no assets... other teams don't see him as their #6 forward.

We are a rebuilding team. We are not signing players to make us a playoff team right now. Raymond is versatile and can play up and down the roster, which is exactly what is needed on a team that will be trying to acclimatize youth onto the roster over the next couple of seasons. At 3/year, that is a fine contract. Poulliot just got 4 mill over five years, for crying out loud.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by 868904

They don't have to play with them. They just have to be a presence.

Last year, after the brawl with Vancouver, Kassian was yapping at the Flames all game long after the big boys were ejected. Took a cheapshot on Bouma as well that left him with a shiner. Tried getting SOB to fight because he knows SOB is not a good fighter.

I can guarantee that Kassian won't be doing any of that next year. He can run from McGrattan as he's out of his weight class, but he'll have to answer to Engelland and Bollig.

This is how hockey is played.

Oh by the way, Flames ended up losing that game to the Canucks. They were pushed around after the big boys left and the Canucks took over.

You do remember that the Flames lost the 4th most games in the league with the big boys in the line-up too, right?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Of course they do.

But if you think Engelland's contract will affect Giordano's you are the one kidding yourself

How can you say that it won't? You just admitted agents look for any comparable to get their guys the most money...

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Sorry (although if I twisted them it was just barely)... it's just becoming annoying how much virtual fapping over "physicality" is taking place. Not by you specifically, but in general and the amount of boner popping over something that's basically a 2nd tier attribute is maddening.

This is a terrible contract, the decision to sign it was a terrible decision and no one should ever be ok with the team making terrible decisions regardless of how meaningless it is at present.

That's really well put.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Is Raymond going to bring in a 3rd round pick next trade deadline?

Who knows as that will largely depends on how he plays this year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by neo45

Well, the fact that you think Sarich was a 7th defenseman when the Flames signed him, and is comparable to Engelland tells me all I need to know. Sarich played in our top 4 for the MAJORITY of his contract and that was when our defense was among the top of the league

Don't fact check this... by Toi he was in the top 4 once Behind Phanuef, Regehr, Aucion in 2008-09. In 07-08 he was #5/6 behind the same 3 PLUS Anders Ericksson and VanderMeer.

Sarich was only a top 4 d-man for a limited time.... He was a good support and added toughness to an already tough (Regehr/Phanuef, Pardy, VannderMeer) Flames Defense..... and could fill in as a top 4.... but he never played up to his UFA value in contracts.


PS. It also seems that he was always playing with some sort of injury.... limited his Ice time in the games he played.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by neo45

Well, the fact that you think Sarich was a 7th defenseman when the Flames signed him, and is comparable to Engelland tells me all I need to know. Sarich played in our top 4 for the MAJORITY of his contract and that was when our defense was among the top of the league

Played in our top 4 for the majority of his contract? That just isn't true. Sure when the flames signed him the first time they thought he was a top 4 guy but our coaches didn't see him that way. He was third pairing the majority of his contract and healthy scratched at times. When Feaster signed him the second time for 3 million under a lower cap it should have been obvious he as a bottom pairing guy and one who isn't as tough as Engelland. One of Feaster's biggest mistakes was overvaluing Sarich and undervaluing Regehr in comparison.

Anyways my point stands. We signed Sarich for 3 million when the cap was lower. Engelland isn't any worse from what I've seen and his contract takes up a lower percentage of the cap than Sarich's did. Neither has a huge affect on signing anybody.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Read Only

How did NYR sign anyone after giving Gomez his deal? Has TB been screwed after the Vinny deal?

Gomez contract? I actually don't think you could have picked a worse example to prove my point haha.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by neo45

How can you say that it won't? You just admitted agents look for any comparable to get their guys the most money...

They look at comparables Englland isn't a comparable.

[dustyanddaflames]

I think comparisons are made, no question - however this contract will rarely, if ever, be mentioned. It's a team that overpaid; everyone knows it. It's not a realistic view of the market.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by neo45

How can you say that it won't? You just admitted agents look for any comparable to get their guys the most money...

If you are Giordano's agent, Engelland's contract is irrelevant. You have Orpik and Niskanen, who just got way more money AND term and are lesser players. You have Seabrook's contract in Chicago. You have Wideman's contract. You have Letang and Mike Green's contracts. Dan Boyle and Strahlman both got 4.5 year averages on Tuesday, both of whom are lesser players than Giordano is. Who cares about Engelland? His contract doesn't even enter the conversation. And if it does, Treliving roles his eyes.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Read Only

They look at comparables Englland isn't a comparable.

I agree that Wideman's contract will screw us more in that negotiation, but giving Engelland 2.92 certainly isn't going to help us convince anyone to take a discount

I wasnt the one that singled out Giordano, btw...

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by neo45

How can you say that it won't? You just admitted agents look for any comparable to get their guys the most money...

You answered your own question - he isn't a comparable

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by neo45

How can you say that it won't? You just admitted agents look for any comparable to get their guys the most money...

Gio will use top pairing guys as comparables. If he continues to play as well as last season he'll be worth 7 million a year and it will have nothing to do with Engelland.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Gio will use top pairing guys as comparables. If he continues to play as well as last season he'll be worth 7 million a year and year will have nothing to do with Engelland.

Easy 7m a year if he can replicate or come close to the season he had last year.

And a cost I do not mind at all to pay.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by neo45

I agree that Wideman's contract will screw us more in that negotiation, but giving Engelland 2.92 certainly isn't going to help us convince anyone to take a discount

I wasnt the one that singled out Giordano, btw...

Even for other bottom pairing guys it won't be a problem.

Take Smid for example he is already at 3.5 million is he going to use Englland as an example? Not likely.

If it is a random borderline guy like say a SOB or Derek Smith. If they say 2.9 because that's what Englland got you point out it was a different situation and offer what you want. It's not like these 6/7 guys have a ton of leverage or are rolling in the big money offers.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You answered your own question - he isn't a comparable

How is he not a comparable? He is a defenceman on the same team signed to a deal by the same GM. The agent will use that. Simple really

And again I dont know why this became only about Giordano

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by neo45

How is he not a comparable? He is a defenceman on the same team signed to a deal by the same GM. The agent will use that. Simple really

And again I dont know why this became only about Giordano

Well then you tell us. Who is going to use Engelland's contract as a leveraging point in negotiations with Treliving? Brodie? no. Wotherspoon? unlikely. Smid? already makes more money. Russell? nope. A future free agent? Possible but still not a very strong argument. It just isn't a very big deal, period.