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Old 06-26-2014, 12:01 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by T@T View Post
If the flames trade #4 and Sven to get #2, I would loose my mind.
I think that would be an overpayment, mainly because of the upside that Sven still has. Hudler or someone else, we know they have reached their upside and wouldn't be around when the Flames are ready to compete for a playoff spot. Buffalo may be willing to take him and #4 to move up, or maybe just one of our seconds + #4?
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:04 PM   #202
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You don't think he will go up against the biggest of men on a team? That is how the other coach will play against him guaranteed. Wear him down if he plays at maybe at tops 190lb. I don't think with his frame(looks to be small boned) he is going to be a 200lb+ player, if he did I think it would take a lot out of his game. I am simply not sold on him as I am maybe the other three in the draft, especially in the Western Conference. If he is what is left at 4 you take him but if you have a chance I think you take the other three.
Well depends who has the last change doesn't it? And Backlund seems to defend fairly well against the big centres at a similar size to Reinhart/Bennett. Tenacity, hockey sense and skating can equalize some of a size disadvantage.

There's also the fact that Bennett has breakaway speed combined with high skill. Will the Thornton's, Getzlaf's, etc be able to keep up with him when we have the puck? That can turn the matchup into our favour at times. Size is a big factor for me but you don't seem to be taking into account any other attribute. Bennett can be a game breaker with his speed, skill and competitiveness.

I keep waffling on these kids. Right now I think I prefer Draisaitl to Reinhart.

1. Ekblad
2. Bennett
3. Draisaitl
4. Reinhart
5. Ritchie

That is my ever-changing list of preferred players.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:09 PM   #203
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What bothers me about the draft is players rise and fall out of favour in the last month or two having not played one minute of hockey. Overanalyse is what everyone does best.
I have been tracking mock drafts this year. For my own keeper league hockey pool purposes where I happen to own the 4th pick and because I am really excited about Flames hockey again and have been putting far too much of my time into thinking about who they should take at 4.

I have looked far and wide for mocks and included many, even some I’ve seen on the Hockey’s Future boards and other websites where the quality of commentary ranges dramatically. My qualifications are firstly, that picks have to be justified intelligently (i.e. picking Ritchie and saying “truculence!” isn’t enough). Secondly I eliminated any drafts that can be accused of homerism such as a Canadien’s fan who foresaw Ehlers falling to 26th and Demko still available at Montreal’s 2nd round selection. Thirdly I accepted very, very few of the drafts that had user-generated trades because of all the difficulties associated with that. They only account for 3 total votes. Finally, I have given the more established mock drafters, such as Bob McKenzie, ISS, Pronman etc double votes to balance out the weight of the amateurs. So Mckenzie’s choice of Draisaitl going to the Flames lead to 2 votes being entered into the spreadsheet while any list from a lesser known or unknown would get 1 vote. Not foolproof and not really scientific but I tried to make it somewhat defensible.

Below are the stats for the Flames pick up to 10 pm MST this morning. The first total is the overall number. Then the stats are divided into pre-and post-Draft Combine or pull-upgate as it is now better known.

All numbers are expressed in terms of percentage. Fifty-four percent of the votes were recorded before and during the combine, forty-six percent afterwards.

Overall
Sam Bennett 40.00%
Leon Draisaitl 18.37%
Sam Reinhart 16.73%
Michael Dal Colle 13.06%
Nick Ritchie 4.49%
William Nylander 3.67%
Jake Virtanen 1.63%
Nikolaj Ehlers 1.22%
Aaron Ekblad 0.83%

Pre-Combine
Sam Bennett 38.30%
Leon Draisaitl 19.15%
Michael Dal Colle 15.60%
Sam Reinhart 14.18%
William Nylander 5.67%
Nick Ritchie 3.55%
Jake Virtanen 2.84%
Aaron Ekblad 0.71%

Post-Combine
Sam Bennett 42.31%
Sam Reinhart 20.39%
Leon Draisaitl 17.31%
Michael Dal Colle 9.62%
Nick Ritchie 5.77%
Nikolaj Ehlers 2.88%
Aaron Ekblad 0.97%
William Nylander 0.97%

The Obvious:

A very insignificant number of mock drafters (0.83%) think Ekblad will sethjones his way down to the 4th pick.

Bennett is clearly the player most expected to go at 4 (both pre- and post-Combine) but yet not by anything approaching half of the drafters.


Risers and Fallers:

Dal Colle, Nylander and Virtanen have seen their pre-Combine numbers drop significantly with Reinhart and Bennett picking up their votes.

While Virtanen did not have many votes before the Combine he has had none since.

Reinhart has, in the last few days, been picked often at 4. Approximately 65% of the time. Three days ago he was behind Dal Colle in the overall but blew by him and is gaining rapidly on Draisaitl for 2nd place.

Bennett saw a big jump immediately after pull-upgate as many seemed to see him as the fourth of the big 4 for a about a week.

Draisaitl’s numbers have been very consistent around 18% of drafters

Ritchie has not had a significant boost despite all the talk about him of late.

Ehlers got no votes before the combine but got a few after

Conclusion:

The Flames will draft someone, possibly Sam Bennett.


Not very helpful I know, but it does put some numbers to the conversation such as there is a 75.1% chance we get a centre.


Perhaps you see something else in them

Last edited by N26; 06-26-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:13 PM   #204
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This is a matter of Treliving and Burke getting their player. Since it's a top four draft it's not going to cost much to swap for the number 2 pick. Baertchi would be too costly if you ask me unless there was more involved. Perhaps a D.Jones for Chris Stewart swap if he has to come back in the deal.
He was asking what it would cost to get #2 without giving up #4. It would be a big cost.

A package involving #4 probably wouldn't require anything crazy. Maybe just a second round pick.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:15 PM   #205
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Well depends who has the last change doesn't it? And Backlund seems to defend fairly well against the big centres at a similar size to Reinhart/Bennett. Tenacity, hockey sense and skating can equalize some of a size disadvantage.

There's also the fact that Bennett has breakaway speed combined with high skill. Will the Thornton's, Getzlaf's, etc be able to keep up with him when we have the puck? That can turn the matchup into our favour at times. Size is a big factor for me but you don't seem to be taking into account any other attribute. Bennett can be a game breaker with his speed, skill and competitiveness.

I keep waffling on these kids. Right now I think I prefer Draisaitl to Reinhart.

1. Ekblad
2. Bennett
3. Draisaitl
4. Reinhart
5. Ritchie

That is my ever-changing list of preferred players.
I hear what you are saying, and it is true speed can certainly change things, Thornton for sure wouldn't catch him! lol. There are other players his size that are accomplished NHLers but do they play the same style of game as he does, his style of game is my concern and one that some scouts have pointed to. At #4 you want a top line talent, not a Backlund, I love Backlund and what he brings to the team but that type of player is not what we should be looking for at this position.

I have no doubt he will be an excellent player but think he will be able to make his game work a lot easier in the East is all I have been trying to say

Last edited by lanny9; 06-26-2014 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:16 PM   #206
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Lots of rumors that the Sabres want another 1st round pick in this draft.

Obviously the Flames can't help them directly in obtaining one, but giving them another 2nd could help the Sabres move up from 31.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:21 PM   #207
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Lots of rumors that the Sabres want another 1st round pick in this draft.

Obviously the Flames can't help them directly in obtaining one, but giving them another 2nd could help the Sabres move up from 31.
Greedy #######s! How many high picks do they need? lol
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:46 PM   #208
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If they move to #2 I'd prefer that it be for Reinhart.

But Drasaitl is my second highest ranked player and I'd love to get him here. The price must be reasonable, though. I'd give up a second, but that and some spare parts would be the most it should cost. This is two spots within the same group of "top" players, so they should keep their demands within reason.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:48 PM   #209
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Would you say then that the islanders wouldn't be over the moon with such an offer?
Don't think you're right with this one amorak....errr I mean BigNumbers.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:48 PM   #210
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I'd be ecstatic if the Flames moved up to 2nd, but then I'd be devastated if they took Draisaitl with that pick over Reinhart.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:56 PM   #211
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I'd be ecstatic if the Flames moved up to 2nd, but then I'd be devastated if they took Draisaitl with that pick over Reinhart.
What if they moved up to 2nd... and picked Richie!
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:57 PM   #212
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Bennett is 6'0.5" and will surely grow to be 190+ lbs.

He isn't a dwarf.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:58 PM   #213
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What if they moved up to 2nd... and picked Richie!
Then the Calgary Flames draft party would empty onto the streets and become the Calgary Flames draft riot.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:59 PM   #214
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Agreed but I'm not so sure that it was the move to the wing more than just gaining NHL experience that was the catalyst, but your argument is more than valid one way or the other. Perhaps he is a better winger. Draisaitl - J.H. Colborne could be a nasty line for the opposition, I think that we are just starting to see what Colborne is made of, good in front of the net in close, big puck possession center in Leon to gain the zone, and then J.H. dictating the play. I likey.

Who the heck is JH?
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:00 PM   #215
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Johnny Hockey I assume.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:02 PM   #216
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Bennett is 6'0.5" and will surely grow to be 190+ lbs.

He isn't a dwarf.
He'll probably grow another half an inch to an inch as well... might get to around 6'1", 6'2" maybe.

I'd be happy with any of the top 4 really. Each one brings something different.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:05 PM   #217
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Johnny Hockey I assume.
Yes, Johnny Hockey.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:13 PM   #218
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Gaudreau - McDavid - Draisaitl
Baertschi - Monahan - Poirier

Okay, okay. One can dream.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:17 PM   #219
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Harvey Fialkov @hfialkov
Nylander Bennett Reinhart Ekblad all have meetings with Tallon tonite. Kapenen Doesn't #flapanthers
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:18 PM   #220
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Who the heck is JH?
Jonathan Huberdeau ?? Must of got him for the rights to Cammalleri rather than the other panther high draft pick prospect..... And just when I thought that window of opportunity was closed.


or could be Johnny Hockey
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