Have you cold approached a girl?

[photon]

Originally Posted by strombad

can be born only out of ignorance or guilt.

This kind of thing is just as disruptive.

[Minnie]

Ooooh, so that's why this thread is 28 pages long....

[ae118]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I am both a father and a feminist. It is beyond me how any man who has a daughter could describe himself in any other way.

I just want to thank Antithesis for the best comment in this thread. And I'd add, that I hope believing in equality stems not from just having a daughter, a wife, a mother, a sister, a girlfriend, or anything else, but from recognizing that 50% of the human race deserves to be treated with respect simply for being human.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by photon

This kind of thing is just as disruptive.

How so?
There are two reasons to be enraged over wittynicknames post:

1. You simply do not know the full scope and reality of the situation, leading you to reject it entirely.

2. You, as a man, feel guilty because of the other members of your gender, but knowing YOU are not like that, you reject it entirely.


How is that disruptive? There's a nobility in both ignorance and guilt, but whichever it is should probably be overcome. Neither in this scenario are inherently bad things.

[Wormius]

I think if you even take just a moment of time and investigate it, even anecdotally, you'll see that wittynicknames assertions are true. Talk to any woman. I asked my wife, and she told me years ago in university some guy ran up to her and her friends and grabbed at them. It maybe isn't that each person is emotionally scarred by the event, but it's meaningful enough that it leaves a lasting impression to keep your guard up.

I would liken it to bullying it. It personally made me averse to the popular kids in school. I know that not all popular people are bullies, but the ones who tended to be bullies fell into that group.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by strombad

Misandry isn't a real thing. If you think it's a real thing, you're probably a misogynist.

Well I don't know if that's true - can you have one without that the other?

Check out the hash tag here:


#kill all men kind of makes me think it's real - does that make me a misogynist? I hope not. I kind of want to buy that for my wife though.

[photon]

Originally Posted by strombad

How is that disruptive?

Creating a dichotomy (a false one IMO, there are other options) then putting someone into it so as to accuse them of ignorance or guilt isn't productive, it just puts the other person on the defensive making them more likely to either retaliate or defend themselves.

In general telling someone else what they think, feel, how they're motivated, why they say something is confrontational and there's usually a better way to get the point across.

In addition it comes across as arrogant, which people generally don't respond well to. "can only be borne out of ignorance" is another way of saying "if you knew what I know you would agree with me."

Plus targeting the poster themselves rather than their ideas (i.e. discussing the poster rather than the topic) also invites confrontation over discussion.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Well I don't know if that's true - can you have one without that the other?



#kill all men kind of makes me think it's real - does that make me a misogynist? I hope not. I kind of want to buy that for my wife though.

You can have one without the other, and I'll quote someone more intelligent than myself to properly illustrate the point:

"The accusation of man hating and male bashing also shifts attention away from women and onto men in a sympathetic way that reinforces patriarchal male centeredness while putting women on the defensive for criticizing it. In the process, it portrays men as victims of a gender prejudice that on the surface seems comparable to the sexism directed at women. Like many such false parallels, this ignores the fact that antifemale and antimale prejudices have different social bases and produce very different consequences. Resentment and hatred of women are grounded in a misogynist culture that devalues femaleness itself as part of male privilege and female oppression. For women, however, mainstream patriarchal culture offers no comparable antimale ideology, and so their resentment is based more on experience as a subordinate group and men’s part in it."
- Allan Johnson

The main problem is not thinking that #killallmen is Misandry, because if Misandry was a real thing, that WOULD be an example. It's that if you firmly believe that Misandry exists and that you, as a man, are victimised by hatred against your gender perpetrated by women, then you likely exhibit misogynistic tendencies.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Ooooh, so that's why this thread is 28 pages long....

I just asked a simple question.

[Red Potato Standing By]

So then what is it called when women perpetrate hate on males if misandry doesn't exist?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by photon

Creating a dichotomy (a false one IMO, there are other options) then putting someone into it so as to accuse them of ignorance or guilt isn't productive, it just puts the other person on the defensive making them more likely to either retaliate or defend themselves.

In general telling someone else what they think, feel, how they're motivated, why they say something is confrontational and there's usually a better way to get the point across.

In addition it comes across as arrogant, which people generally don't respond well to. "can only be borne out of ignorance" is another way of saying "if you knew what I know you would agree with me."

Plus targeting the poster themselves rather than their ideas (i.e. discussing the poster rather than the topic) also invites confrontation over discussion.

I don't think it would shock anybody to see a post of mine be described as "confrontational." There are, of course, different ways to carry one's self, but that does not make them better.

Is telling someone what they mean not the same as telling someone what they think?

Is there no irony in your final sentence, considering not a single word is in reference to the topic?

Regardless, I'll stick by my post. If the worst I did was disrupt his attack on wittynickname, then yeah, I'm pretty comfortable being disruptive.

[Igotnothing]

I think the point photon is trying to make is that you aren't changing his mind or educating him by being disruptive or confrontational. You may have stopped his attack but that's a short term gain. And in the long run have possibly made things worse.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Igotnothing

I think the point photon is trying to make is that you aren't changing his mind or educating him by being disruptive or confrontational. You may have stopped his attack but that's a short term gain. And in the long run have possibly made things worse.

Well, if wittynickname's personal accounts of abuse didn't change his mind or educate him... well... I guess I just thought...

[Dion]

[gladaki]

I dont know what to say. Women always dominate over guys in most of the cases. Domestic violence on guys is some thing which need attention

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Feminism, the political-social movement (distinguished from feminist critical theory), explicitly seeks equal economic, social, and political rights for women in a patriarchal society. Its ambitions, and its name, are born of a historical fact: the patriarchy of western society. Seems straight forward enough to me?

I admit I didn't look it up myself and was going off of the definition above my post.

Originally Posted by ae118

It bothers me that our entire language has a masculine default, since, oh, the dawn of man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sweet, well lets change that too while we are at it. You know, instead of oh, exacerbating the problem.

[ae118]

You think feminism exacerbates the problem of inequality? After you've read the definition?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by strombad

You can have one without the other, and I'll quote someone more intelligent than myself to properly illustrate the point:

"The accusation of man hating and male bashing also shifts attention away from women and onto men in a sympathetic way that reinforces patriarchal male centeredness while putting women on the defensive for criticizing it. In the process, it portrays men as victims of a gender prejudice that on the surface seems comparable to the sexism directed at women. Like many such false parallels, this ignores the fact that antifemale and antimale prejudices have different social bases and produce very different consequences. Resentment and hatred of women are grounded in a misogynist culture that devalues femaleness itself as part of male privilege and female oppression. For women, however, mainstream patriarchal culture offers no comparable antimale ideology, and so their resentment is based more on experience as a subordinate group and men’s part in it."
- Allan Johnson

The main problem is not thinking that #killallmen is Misandry, because if Misandry was a real thing, that WOULD be an example. It's that if you firmly believe that Misandry exists and that you, as a man, are victimised by hatred against your gender perpetrated by women, then you likely exhibit misogynistic tendencies.

As smart as this guy might be that just seems wrong. To me, this logic would also excuse people of being racist against whites - that it in a sense doesn't exist. Am I interpreting this wrong?

[HOWITZER]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

But you'd actually have to be a tourist for this to work n'est-ce pas?

Honestly, no. I lived in Toronto and took the TTC every day of the week. I was FROM Alberta, but never had to spill the beans on how long exactly I was in Toronto. I had to break it a girl at one point when things started to get serious, but when I told her, she laughed and thanked me because it got us talking.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by gladaki

I dont know what to say. Women always dominate over guys in most of the cases. Domestic violence on guys is some thing which need attention

This is always a really interesting MRA talking point to me, like acknowledging that 1 in ####ing 4 women experience sexual assault and that men should stop being gigantic ####ing #######s somehow marginalizes the existence of male-targeted domestic violence.

Originally Posted by Coys1882

#kill all men kind of makes me think it's real - does that make me a misogynist? I hope not. I kind of want to buy that for my wife though.

Quoting radical strawman feminists off Tumblr and claiming they represent a significant portion of anything is like reading Stormfront and concluding that there is a racewar coming.