CP Mafia 2 - Town Square Showdown - Game Over

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Lets just lay out cbl's behaviour on this day.

-comes out swinging with oling, They both lay out cases for me AND vote for me immediately.

I take issue with this. I simply pointed out you defending starseed. I explicitly state it might be something to consider down the road. I didn't vote for you, I didn't accuse you of anything but defending starseed of which I said was probably too blatant to be mafia. Do do you deny you defended starseed? If not why do you take such issue with my post?

The reason I'm voting for you was the over the top response. No rational town would take such issue with something they did. You responded like the type of kid who flips a boardgame over when someone wont trade them Park Place. It was way over the top and your response of hoping you get voted out and town dies seemed far too aggressive to lead me believe you are a townie who is trying to help the town. Either irrational townie who's main goal is survival or mafia going on the offense.

[kermitology]

Baxter spent the early part of the game popping into the thread to vote or post after someone called him out. Then mostly posting things like, "I agree" and voting with the trending mass. I would expect the doctor to have a vested interest instead of such a desperation reaction.

[Baxter Renegade]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Baxter spent the early part of the game popping into the thread to vote or post after someone called him out. Then mostly posting things like, "I agree" and voting with the trending mass. I would expect the doctor to have a vested interest instead of such a desperation reaction.

You're expectations are incorrect. As a player with a valuable role, I needed to draw as little attention to myself as possible. Posting every thought based on nothing is a good way to get lynched. The Mafia is very capable of leading the charge, which is what I expect happened today. Tell me, why do you believe it a good idea to lynch me?

Don't say I don't bring anything to the game either. Nearly all of my recent posts have information based on decent data and clues... Again, I believe thats why you Mafia guys led the charge to have me lynched, I started hitting some nerves.

[Baxter Renegade]

I also posted regarding the rules of the Cop. This was a subtle way of showing my affiliation while also bringing the rules to the attention of the Cop in the event he was unaware...

There is no way a mafia member would do this. If I was mafia, I could have easily PM'd Mazrim regarding the rules. Having this information public only aids the town and harms the mafia.

Again, this was a conscious post and I had hoped that anyone following the game would pick up on that hint.

[Rathji]

So, Baxter is Dr, allegedly. This isn't something he could ever prove though.

Out options are

a) He is telling the truth. He dies to night kill and we get confirmation. This is good because it forces mafia to play prisoners dilemma and maybe lose a kill. (also bad, see option d below)

b) He is telling the truth, and we lynch him. We lose townie and likely 2 more due to night kill. This is bad, but I don't know if it is the worst result

c) He is lying and we lynch him. That's a huge win for the town. Not only do we kill mafia with a lynch, but it gives us a ton of info.

d) He is lying and we don't lynch him. This is the worst result by far. He could claim that both mafia must have suspected that the other mafia would do the kill, so they picked other targets. We would have zero idea and given the mafia an extra day (potentially).

The only result that makes any sense for the town is one that we know for sure what happens and what he is.

I think that choice is c. Not only do we avoid any chance of something left undetermined afterwards, but the chances of him lying are much higher than he isn't lying (1 doctor left and 5 mafia) as I don't really see anything to indicate that he is the Dr other than his claim that he was running under the radar in the beginning to avoid being targeted by mafia.

Just a note: His claim that his strat was to stay out of sight would be an ideal one for the Dr though, as if I was playing Dr. that is exactly what I would be doing, no way you would want to be playing like me and potentially drawing fire from townies.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Baxter Renegade

I also posted regarding the rules of the Cop. This was a subtle way of showing my affiliation while also bringing the rules to the attention of the Cop in the event he was unaware...

There is no way a mafia member would do this. If I was mafia, I could have easily PM'd Mazrim regarding the rules. Having this information public only aids the town and harms the mafia.

Again, this was a conscious post and I had hoped that anyone following the game would pick up on that hint.

Which post was that?

I remember the post as I have it in my notes as a potential strike against you, because it seemed very odd that you would post it. I can't recall exactly what you said though, so maybe I misinterpreted.

[HalifaxDrunk]

I don't believe BR is lying, he really seems to be the Doctor. While the the lie would be a great defense because if someone else was really the doctor they probably wouldn't reveal themselves.

I still think the Minifig is our best vote (in case you didn't know lego men are really called Minifigs).

[Baxter Renegade]

Guys, I am the Doc... Do not lynch me. Lynch CBL or Lego or Kermit and allow me to attempt to protect a townie during night.

This is the only beneficial scenario for the town and even then, the town is in deep doo-doo.

[Mazrim]

Vote Count:

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes on any one player to hammer. It takes 6 votes to deadline lynch.

Hasn’t Voted (4): CofR, ineedanother, Completely, Hockeyguy15

Voting:
Baxter Renegade (6): Crazy Bacon Legs, strombad, Lego Man, kermitology, Rathji, dissentowner
Lego Man (3): DropIt, CaptainCrunch, HalifaxDrunk
flameswin (3): Oling_Roachinen, flameswin, undercoverbrother
Crazy Bacon Legs (1): Baxter Renegade

Deadline is Tuesday, May 20th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

[Rathji]

So, I am heading on a drive, my final question before I go Baxter is this:

Why should we keep you? As a Dr that has revealed, you are a dead man. Even if you stay alive somehow, we can't trust that you are actually the Dr. If you are dead we can.

The big worry I have here is that there are enough mafia votes left to lynch you if both groups thing you are the Dr. The problem with that, is that they then get major neon signs over their head that blink mafia over and over again.

I was going to unvote just in case they tried, but I think we would learn enough by them trying that it was worth it, so I won't.

So, townies, if you vote for Baxter, we will think you are mafia. We have enough votes to deadline lynch, so if you unvote, it might look the same way, especially if he survives the night. I don't know what this means.

Also, just noticed that 2 suspected mafia (CC and HG15) are the only 2 who seem to buy into Baxter's claim entirely without complaint. Just mentioning it in case he does end up flipping mafia, as it points a little more their way.

[Rathji]

Actually, one more thign Baxter, a dr is only as good as their ability to actually protect someone. If you can't do that, it might not be the risk of you lying to keep you around.

Give us some reason that the next night will be better than the last 4. I havent made up my mind yet

[Baxter Renegade]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Which post was that?

I remember the post as I have it in my notes as a potential strike against you, because it seemed very odd that you would post it. I can't recall exactly what you said though, so maybe I misinterpreted.

I asked if the cop could reveal his findings in his deathpost. Maz responded and said no details about individuals could be revealed in a death post.

I then asked if the cop could reveal his data if he was in danger of being lynched. Maz said that was fine.

I wanted the cop to know he could do this, hence the public posting and not a PM direct to Mazrim... It was also a subtle way of showing my affiliation with town to avoid a lynching. The cop revealing Mafia members is a good thing for town. The cop being luckily night killed and not being able to reveal his findings would be awful, especially with current revelations.

I then helped lead the charge against Lego. We had good numbers against him before his mafia members swooped in and began a successful crusade against me. Too bad, we could have had lynched a mafia and my role could have remained a secret.

The cop currently has data on 4 people. Some could be dead, some could be alive. It may be beneficial to reveal himself soon if he has data on 4 people who remain alive. With the current number of players remaining, the Dr's days numbered, and 2 mafia groups each getting a kill every night, the towns only hope would be to get this data before he's caught by accident. Tough to say though.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Rathji

So, Baxter is Dr, allegedly. This isn't something he could ever prove though.

Out options are

a) He is telling the truth. He dies to night kill and we get confirmation. This is good because it forces mafia to play prisoners dilemma and maybe lose a kill. (also bad, see option d below)

b) He is telling the truth, and we lynch him. We lose townie and likely 2 more due to night kill. This is bad, but I don't know if it is the worst result

c) He is lying and we lynch him. That's a huge win for the town. Not only do we kill mafia with a lynch, but it gives us a ton of info.

d) He is lying and we don't lynch him. This is the worst result by far. He could claim that both mafia must have suspected that the other mafia would do the kill, so they picked other targets. We would have zero idea and given the mafia an extra day (potentially).

e) He is lying and the other mafia lynches him?

It might be the only time where mafia and town have the same goal. If he is lying and if mafia the other group has incentive to kill him.

1 day is 1 day saved for him but now one group of mafia should want him dead which leads me more to believe him.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Last post should read "e) He is lying and the other mafia night-kills him?"

Easy to pull an agulati :P

[Crazy Bacon Legs]

Of course you're the doctor, Baxter Renegade. But guess what?

I am the Doctor as well!

No, not really. But it's not so hard to make that claim, is it?

It's a fair attempt to dissuade people from voting for you, but it's not going to work. A desperate move that appears to have worked for a couple people, but I don't think it's going to be very successful. The only better tactic would have been to claim you're the Officer and go after the people who are voting for you. Maybe it's not too late for that?

I will happily fall on my sword if we're wrong about you. Obviously, that would put me in a bad situation, but I can tell you this much: if I were mafia, I would never aim so directly at people. It's a good way to get oneself lynched by being wrong, but it's a risk I am more than willing to take to help the town win. But it doesn't matter, because I'm pretty sure I will die tonight and then people will see I flip town. That will help us to win.

I've provided analysis and evidence: where's yours?

Oh, and flameswin, your baseless attacks are just solidifying my belief that you're mafia and reek of desperation. I explained why I wanted to hold off on you for this round already. If you flip the same as starseed, I can see how it could look bad for me as that would be two from the same team I've headhunted. I pushed hard to lynch starseed, and when him, Baxter and you all flip mafia, people will understand why I did what I did.

People will see the truth after this vote and I think you know your days are numbered.

Best of luck trying to rally the mafia folks against me though.

[Baxter Renegade]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Actually, one more thign Baxter, a dr is only as good as their ability to actually protect someone. If you can't do that, it might not be the risk of you lying to keep you around.

Give us some reason that the next night will be better than the last 4. I havent made up my mind yet

Are you saying you knew townies who were going to be targeted by either group? Unless you're psychic, you don't. Everything is up in the air.

I placed votes each night to protect people who I felt were Town based on the same obscure details we all had. These same obscure details that also resulted in us very townsfolk killing our own people. Obviously, with the revelation that INEEDANOTHER was town I saved him night 1 and 2. I saw he wasn't being targeted and saved two others nights 3 and 4 who I felt were strong players, were helping the town, and were perhaps correct on some of their theories. They weren't targeted... I should have known they wouldn't be perhaps? I don't think so.

My only regret was not saving GGG. He was onto Starseed and I was *this close* to sending Maz his name. Alas, I chose another individual... Again, no one knows anything concrete and making the rightchoice is similar to picking the right number on a chart of random numbers.

Saying that I didn't do a good job of being doctor is crap. No one has hard information. At least I didn't save a mafia member from death.

[Baxter Renegade]

Originally Posted by Crazy Bacon Legs

Of course you're the doctor, Baxter Renegade. But guess what?

I am the Doctor as well!

No, not really. But it's not so hard to make that claim, is it?

It's a fair attempt to dissuade people from voting for you, but it's not going to work. A desperate move that appears to have worked for a couple people, but I don't think it's going to be very successful. The only better tactic would have been to claim you're the Officer and go after the people who are voting for you. Maybe it's not too late for that?

I will happily fall on my sword if we're wrong about you. Obviously, that would put me in a bad situation, but I can tell you this much: if I were mafia, I would never aim so directly at people. It's a good way to get oneself lynched by being wrong, but it's a risk I am more than willing to take to help the town win. But it doesn't matter, because I'm pretty sure I will die tonight and then people will see I flip town. That will help us to win.

I've provided analysis and evidence: where's yours?

Oh, and flameswin, your baseless attacks are just solidifying my belief that you're mafia and reek of desperation. I explained why I wanted to hold off on you for this round already. If you flip the same as starseed, I can see how it could look bad for me as that would be two from the same team I've headhunted. I pushed hard to lynch starseed, and when him, Baxter and you all flip mafia, people will understand why I did what I did.

People will see the truth after this vote and I think you know your days are numbered.

Best of luck trying to rally the mafia folks against me though.

Your posts will seem awfully foolish awfully shortly.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Crazy Bacon Legs

I pushed hard to lynch starseed, and when him, Baxter and you all flip mafia, people will understand why I did what I did.

When did this happen?

You had him on a list of like 10 other people (those who voted for all town) but you never campaigned for him individually until he had a lot of votes.

unvote
Vote: Crazy Bacon Legs

Point me to your posts of lynching starseed before he had a ton of votes and I'll reconsider but right now it looks like you're just trying to take credit for a mafia kill that you tagged along on.

[Crazy Bacon Legs]

By the way, whoever is actually the doctor: Baxter is trying to draw you into revealing yourself. Don't fall for it.

[ineedanother]

I can understand the thought that Baxter is mafia, as all of his votes are just following others lead. He was high on my list before this reveal. I don't know why either mafia would not target him, but they have been doing a good job of muddying the waters for us townies. Rathji's possible outcomes are correct, but I believe with 2 mafia groups it makes it harder to lie about having an ability. There might be one group that knows you are lying but the other group should see this as an easy target, as it still furthers their game.