LSE: War on Drugs a Global Failure

[nik-]

Regardless if they go away or not, what we're doing right now isn't working. It's been 40 years, it's time to try something else.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I always love the "Tax the crap out of it" remark you always hear from people who begrudgingly agree that it's time to legalize. It's like their way of "getting back at those damn tokers who are likely soon going to get their way".

No, you don't tax the crap out of it, you tax it appropriately, and make sure the costs are competitive, after tax with street prices or everyone will just buy it illegally.

I believe that the tax rate on an average of about 20%, I believe its about $22.00 per carton which is what 8 packs.

I think the liquor consumption tax is about 10% of the price of what your buying.

I believe grass should be taxed in that 20% area.

If anything the underworld groups aren't going to try to compete on price, that makes little sense, they're either going to push to another enterprise or work on making their grass better or more potent.

I would bet that if the government licensed grass it wouldn't be half as potent as the stuff that's out there now.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Acid is incredibly hard to find these days. In this regard I would say the war on drugs is working.
I remember in HS it was 100x easier to get a bag of pot than it was to get a beer. In this regard I would say the war on drugs is a failure.

Acid is harder to find because there was like one major manufacturer that got busted a few years back and no one bothered to step in, because it's better to deal in other drugs.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Acid is incredibly hard to find these days. In this regard I would say the war on drugs is working.
I remember in HS it was 100x easier to get a bag of pot than it was to get a beer. In this regard I would say the war on drugs is a failure.

LSD is only hard to find because it has decreased in both popularity and profitability. It has nothing to do with the war on drugs. LSD is one of the easier drugs to manufacture and distribute, there just isn't the demand for it that there used to be because no one has time to be ####ed up for 12 hours straight.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

Acid is harder to find because there was like one major manufacturer that got busted a few years back and no one bothered to step in, because it's better to deal in other drugs.

It's actually made a comeback in recent years, but yeah, it's also not the only hallucinogenic game in town like it used to be either.

EDIT: I should also add it largely depends on where you live. I never really knew anyone who took LSD in Calgary, but I know quite few people in Victoria who've had considerable experience with it.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Right, but by making them legal you can implement harm reduction policies that treat addiction, rather than locking the users up. At the same time, you cut off money that funds the cartels and reduce a lot of the collateral damage caused by fighting the war on drugs.

Why can't you implement them now? The users are rarely locked up, the sellers are, and rightfully so.

And the Cartels will do just fine. They'll sell more to other countries and still run the criminal networks in North America and move on to other illegal activities and will still be as dangerous or they'll sell drugs cheaper than the government can.

The drug cartels aren't going anywhere.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Except that keeping these things is likely causing more harm, according to the study. They don't go away just because they're illegal.

No they change.

look at what happened in Russia with synthetic heroins. cheaper, bigger high, your skin falls off. There will always be another illegal nasty more potent drug that comes out, I read an article that the Cartel hires PHD level bio-chemists to refine product.

I'm not an advocate for just simply locking up addicts, I think that's the failure of the war on drugs, not going after the dealer, find a way to reduce the market, not increase or stabilize the market.

But I have a strong hatred of people that sell drugs, if you want to target something that's what you target.

But addicts, need help, and selling stuff at the local 7-11 to me enables them especially if we're talking harder stuff.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Why can't you implement them now? The users are rarely locked up, the sellers are, and rightfully so.

Maybe in Canada, but look at the U.S.

And the Cartels will do just fine. They'll sell more to other countries and still run the criminal networks in North America and move on to other illegal activities and will still be as dangerous or they'll sell drugs cheaper than the government can.

As evidenced by the booming underground liquor and tobacco market, right?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But addicts, need help, and selling stuff at the local 7-11 to me enables them especially if we're talking harder stuff.

I'm not sure many people are advocating the sale of heroin at the local 7-11. I would however consider a model wherein heroin was distributed at Ministry-of-Health-operated safe injection sites (as just one idea.)

[MarchHare]

But addicts, need help, and selling stuff at the local 7-11 to me enables them especially if we're talking harder stuff.

Is anyone seriously proposing selling crack and heroin at convenience stores? Whenever this subject comes up, it's usually in the context of legalizing and controlling marijuana sales (similar to alcohol and tobacco) while simultaneously replacing the war on drugs with "harm reduction" policies for users of the more dangerous substances, e.g. safe injection sites, needle exchanges, condom distribution, etc.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by rubecube

LSD is only hard to find because it has decreased in both popularity and profitability. It has nothing to do with the war on drugs. LSD is one of the easier drugs to manufacture and distribute, there just isn't the demand for it that there used to be because no one has time to be ####ed up for 12 hours straight.

This - and psychedelics aren't exactly a cash cow for organized crime. You pay 5-10 bucks and get twacked out of your mind, which probably is an exciting experience that you'll repeat a few times a year at most.

Pot is something people who do it use regularly to unwind.

The harder stuff is pretty self explanatory - ridiculous profit margins on highly addictive substances

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

No they change.

look at what happened in Russia with synthetic heroins. cheaper, bigger high, your skin falls off. There will always be another illegal nasty more potent drug that comes out, I read an article that the Cartel hires PHD level bio-chemists to refine product.

I'm pretty sure narcotics in Russia are heavily criminalized, so I'm not sure I understand your point.

But addicts, need help, and selling stuff at the local 7-11 to me enables them especially if we're talking harder stuff.

I'm not advocating putting this stuff in 7-11, but selling it commercially, putting restrictions on sales and, most importantly, regulating what is in the substance can go a long way towards preventing and treating addiction, much further anyways than the free-for-all addicts have access to now.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm pretty sure narcotics in Russia are heavily criminalized, so I'm not sure I understand your point.

.

I might be wrong, but I think he is say, that the drug industry is always looking for the next big product to bring to market.

[Flash Walken]

lol, the russian boogeyman.

Come on captain, you aren't falling victim to these old wives tales are you?

People huff glue and gasoline too, and meth in and of itself is quite toxic.

You think if you can go to the pharmacy to get your high grade heroin you'll forego that to go to an alley to get your low-grade puddle water ####?

The hoops you are jumping through are making me dizzy here.

When you smoked, did shop for cigarettes at convenience stores or off the back of a truck on a native reserve?

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Maybe in Canada, but look at the U.S.



As evidenced by the booming underground liquor and tobacco market, right?

You want to look at Tobacco and liquor?

Well then your whole argument is flawed then. Tobacco and liquor addictions are what happens when you make something legal.

The amount of people addicted to hard drugs will rise.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But addicts, need help, and selling stuff at the local 7-11 to me enables them especially if we're talking harder stuff.

Dude ... come on. When you say things like this you surround your entire argument in a blanket of hilarious hyperbole.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

You want to look at Tobacco and liquor?

Well then your whole argument is flawed then. Tobacco and liquor addictions are what happens when you make something legal.

The amount of people addicted to hard drugs will rise.

[citation needed]

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

You want to look at Tobacco and liquor?

Well then your whole argument is flawed then. Tobacco and liquor addictions are what happens when you make something legal.

The amount of people addicted to hard drugs will rise.

Haha, wow. I can really tell you've done a lot of research on this subject and aren't just completely pulling stuff out of your ass.

[Flash Walken]

Where are the fiscal conservatives here?

The war on drugs is a massive waste of money. As concluded by the London School of Economics.

Where's all the outrage and fury towards your tax dollars being wasted?

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by nik-

Dude ... come on. When you say things like this you surround your entire argument in a blanket of hilarious hyperbole.

How is it hyperbole?

The government right now sells you cigarettes. You know that thing that causes cancer and leads to a horrible painful death? And they profit off of it. What's to stop them from profiting from cocaine? If you guys want to legalize it I see nothing stopping them from selling it at the 7-11.