LSE: War on Drugs a Global Failure

[rubecube]

Hey, we haven't had a good legalization thread pop up in like a month, so I'm just going to leave this here.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/war-...says-1.2636263

The war on drugs must end and the battle to change international drug policies must begin, says a new report from the London School of Economics.
Five Nobel Prize-winning economists signed off on the 84-page report entitled Ending the Drug Wars: Report of the LSE Expert Group on the Economics of Drug Policy authored by leading drug policy experts and supported by political figures from around the world calling for drug law reform.


The authors offer compelling evidence that achieving a “drug-free world” based solely on a prohibitionist model is an expensive and wasted effort. According to John Collins, co-ordinator of LSE IDEAS International Drug Policy Project and editor of the report, the drug policy experts' recommendations show how the war on drugs is a failure requiring a "major rethink of international drug policies."


Based on rigorous economic and social analyses of primarily the U.S., Latin America, West Africa and Asia, the authors urge that global resources shift from prosecution and imprisonment to more “effective evidence-based polices” such as harm reduction, treatment and public health strategies. Similar recommendations are suggested for Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom.


Current policies have helped push the black market drug trade to as much as $300 billion, and the 40 per cent of the world’s nine million prison inmates are jailed for drug-related offences — a figure that jumps to 59 per cent in the U.S. Moreover, between 70 and 85 per cent of American inmates are in need of substance abuse treatment.



The report emphasizes that while prohibition holds some value in decreasing drug dependence, the harm to society is gravely outweighed due to violence, government corruption and collateral damage associated with the drug war, especially in drug producing countries like Mexico, Colombia and Guatemala.
Dr. Benedikt Fischer, the Applied Public Health Research Chair and professor in the Faculty of Health Sciences at Simon Fraser University in B.C. thinks prohibition is an outdated weapon to fight the modern war on drugs.

This really shouldn't come as news to anyone but I'm guessing our government and our neighbours to the South, particularly the Republicans will find some way to dismiss this.


This is the point that I always like to make:

Fischer also says the argument that decriminalization leads to more drug use is a fallacy, and he points to the world's most popular drug — marijuana — as an example.


“Everyone that wants to use cannabis is using cannabis today," he says. "[There's no] evidence that there are people who are waiting just for this to be regulated, then all of a sudden will decide that they will now start using.”

Fischer agrees that harm reduction is only part of the larger picture in minimizing drug dependence. “No one can pretend that these problems will entirely disappear, but the assumption of a fundamentally different public health-oriented approach is that a lot of these problems will be significantly reduced to the benefit of both users and society at large.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Hey, we haven't had a good legalization thread pop up in like a month, so I'm just going to leave this here.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/war-...says-1.2636263




This really shouldn't come as news to anyone but I'm guessing our government and our neighbours to the South, particularly the Republicans will find some way to dismiss this.


This is the point that I always like to make:

I think we have bounced back and force on this before.

But are you for a carte blanche legalization of all current "illegal" drugs?

[Cuz]

(In reference to the war on drugs not working)

[Jets4Life]

I see nothing wrong with using marijuana (assuming you are not going to operate machinery). From the ages 18-23, I was a moderate user of Mary Jane. I find alcohol to be far worse of a problem, as I did have problems with it in my late 20's so i rarely drink now.

For hard drug (cocaine, meth, etc.), it should be treated as a mental health issue, not a criminal issue for those that are addicted. Locking people up due to their own vices is not helping anyone, and fueling the criminal underground with the means to make money.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I think we have bounced back and force on this before.

But are you for a carte blanche legalization of all current "illegal" drugs?

Carte blanche? As in no restrictions at all? No, I'm not. I'd definitely want to put controls in place such as a legal age, hours of sale, levels of intoxication at purchase, etc. You'd want to limit the amount of impulse purchases, while still allowing people to make decisions for themselves that don't turn them into criminals for really no good reason, other than the temperance ideologies maintained by others.

[Street Pharmacist]

One issue I suspect is how the North American youth culture of rebellion will respond. For example, look at alcohol use in youth. They drink to get drunk when parents aren't looking. Many other countries that have a more liberal view of alcohol consumption don't seem to have this same problem is. Continental Europe (Russia excluded). Having spent a significant portion of my youth there, the attitude is different. They certainly enjoy drinking, even binging at times, but it's not necessarily the intent as it is here. The drunkest person at the bar there is looked at with embarrassment often, not the ideal

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

One issue I suspect is how the North American youth culture of rebellion will respond. For example, look at alcohol use in youth. They drink to get drunk when parents aren't looking. Many other countries that have a more liberal view of alcohol consumption don't seem to have this same problem is. Continental Europe (Russia excluded). Having spent a significant portion of my youth there, the attitude is different. They certainly enjoy drinking, even binging at times, but it's not necessarily the intent as it is here. The drunkest person at the bar there is looked at with embarrassment often, not the ideal

I think the paradigm has started to shift here as well. Not necessarily in my age group, but I've noticed people even just a couple of years younger than me don't really regard getting wasted as something cool. They see it as something their loser parents do.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Carte blanche? As in no restrictions at all? No, I'm not. I'd definitely want to put controls in place such as a legal age, hours of sale, levels of intoxication at purchase, etc. You'd want to limit the amount of impulse purchases, while still allowing people to make decisions for themselves that don't turn them into criminals for really no good reason, other than the temperance ideologies maintained by others.

Going back my question was poorly worded.

I guess a better way to ask it:

Are you for the legalization of current "illegal" drugs, with restrictions placed upon the purchase/use of those drugs. For arguments sake, restrictions that are similiar to are like those currently on alcohol.

[Makarov]

Fischer also says the argument that decriminalization leads to more drug use is a fallacy, and he points to the world's most popular drug — marijuana — as an example.


“Everyone that wants to use cannabis is using cannabis today," he says. "[There's no] evidence that there are people who are waiting just for this to be regulated, then all of a sudden will decide that they will now start using.”

I disagree. There must be some old farts, other than just me, who used to smoke, but have since grown old and moved away from their deadbeat friends/connections, who would indulge the occasional toke if I could stroll down the street to the LCBO and pick up a nice bottle of wine and a dime bag.

[polak]

I should just save one post and copy and paste it into all these threads. Mainstream drugs that shouldn't be legally sold my books:

Heroin, Meth, Crack and their variations, GHB and anything else that would be used to harm others and not for recreational use.

Make posession in small amounts legal though so you're not going after the users, which does no one any good.

Let the other mainstream drugs have free reign but make it illegal to be intoxicated in public, just like it is with Alcohol. That way you can still go after people who can't handle their s***.

[DuffMan]

They did a thing on Colorado on the last Vice show, and one guy said so far they have taken 3 or 6 (I forget exactly) billion dollars out of the drug cartel profits and put money back into schools, roads, infrastructure etc. via taxes. Don't know where he got his numbers or if they're correct but it is still a pretty good argument. Not that I needed one to change my mind or anything.

[CaptainCrunch]

I would be fine if we legalized grass like liquor, put an age restriction on it, tax the crap out of it, make it heavily fineable to sell it without a license.

For the hard drugs for me like crack and crystal heroin etc, you will never convince me that they should be legalized for the harm that they cause the individual who use them and for how powerful that addiction is.

Personally, I really believe because of the things I've seen with harder drugs, if you're caught selling that sh%t to anyone, they tie a boulder to your feet and throw you off of the cliff because you are the worst type of parasite.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

For the hard drugs for me like crack and crystal heroin etc, you will never convince me that they should be legalized for the harm that they cause the individual who use them and for how powerful that addiction is.

Is it a more powerful addition than other addicitions?

Is there a scale of addiction strenght?


Honest question

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Going back my question was poorly worded.

I guess a better way to ask it:

Are you for the legalization of current "illegal" drugs, with restrictions placed upon the purchase/use of those drugs. For arguments sake, restrictions that are similiar to are like those currently on alcohol.

Yes, absolutely.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would be fine if we legalized grass like liquor, put an age restriction on it, tax the crap out of it, make it heavily fineable to sell it without a license.

For the hard drugs for me like crack and crystal heroin etc, you will never convince me that they should be legalized for the harm that they cause the individual who use them and for how powerful that addiction is.

Personally, I really believe because of the things I've seen with harder drugs, if you're caught selling that sh%t to anyone, they tie a boulder to your feet and throw you off of the cliff because you are the worst type of parasite.

I always love the "Tax the crap out of it" remark you always hear from people who begrudgingly agree that it's time to legalize. It's like their way of "getting back at those damn tokers who are likely soon going to get their way".

No, you don't tax the crap out of it, you tax it appropriately, and make sure the costs are competitive, after tax with street prices or everyone will just buy it illegally.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Is it a more powerful addition than other addicitions?

Is there a scale of addiction strenght?


Honest question

I think the FDA published something on this. I hardly think it's comprehensive but they measure a variety of drugs and how high they rated in certain areas such as physical withdrawal symptoms, redose rate, etc., and then assigned an addiction score to each one. Some of it is pretty interesting. Cocaine, for instance, scored lower than booze and cigarettes. And then you had hallucinogenics, MDMA, etc., which barely even registered

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

For the hard drugs for me like crack and crystal heroin etc, you will never convince me that they should be legalized for the harm that they cause the individual who use them and for how powerful that addiction is.

Except that keeping these things is likely causing more harm, according to the study. They don't go away just because they're illegal.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Except that keeping these things is likely causing more harm, according to the study. They don't go away just because they're illegal.

And they don't go away if they're legal.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

And they don't go away if they're legal.

Right, but by making them legal you can implement harm reduction policies that treat addiction, rather than locking the users up. At the same time, you cut off money that funds the cartels and reduce a lot of the collateral damage caused by fighting the war on drugs.

[Temporary_User]

Acid is incredibly hard to find these days. In this regard I would say the war on drugs is working.
I remember in HS it was 100x easier to get a bag of pot than it was to get a beer. In this regard I would say the war on drugs is a failure.