Coach bans kid from playing for not cutting his hair

[Jimmy Stang]

What a dinosaur this coach is. In the article, he equates a haircut to respecting the coach, themselves, etc. and even goes as far as to say that he is trying to promote "character" - as long as you remove something that makes you individual. Long hair is not disrespectful to anyone. In 2014, if someone is feeling disrespected by someone else's choice of hair style, perhaps they forgot where they parked the de Lorean.

The argument that "rules are rules" and "that's how it has always been" is weak. If these rules are outdated and have no benefit to the sport or player safety, then they need to evolve.

The length of this kids hair have no impact on his ability to play baseball or be part of the team, except in the little mini military drill camp that this coach is trying to run. It is only a problem because he made it a problem. Time to ease up on the power trip.

[Oy Tiggins]

Originally Posted by dino7c

James Hetfeild of Metallica was a really good high school football player...His coach told him to cut his hair or he would be off the team...he told the coach to go #### himself and started one of the top selling bands of all time

Maybe the kid should go start a sweet rock band, i bet his mom could film it and put on youtube to spread the word of how special her son is.

Mean while the kids that want to play baseball for the coach can.

[Regulator75]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

What a dinosaur this coach is. In the article, he equates a haircut to respecting the coach, themselves, etc. and even goes as far as to say that he is trying to promote "character" - as long as you remove something that makes you individual. Long hair is not disrespectful to anyone. In 2014, if someone is feeling disrespected by someone else's choice of hair style, perhaps they forgot where they parked the de Lorean.

The argument that "rules are rules" and "that's how it has always been" is weak. If these rules are outdated and have no benefit to the sport or player safety, then they need to evolve.

The length of this kids hair have no impact on his ability to play baseball or be part of the team, except in the little mini military drill camp that this coach is trying to run. It is only a problem because he made it a problem. Time to ease up on the power trip.

[photon]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/high.../article/33528

That's not the Supreme Court, and it wasn't about the length of the hair, it was about gender discrimination (which is illegal to discriminate based on).

The U.S. District Court for the Southern District Court of Indiana, Indianapolis Division, rejected the parents’ equal protection and Title IX claims on the grounds that the short-hair requirement does not apply to all boys’ teams.

Although the policy was not universally applied, the 7th Circuit found that it was still based on gender. The hair-length rule applied only to male athletes even though female athletes had the same need to keep their hair from their eyes and promote team unity. The 7th Circuit found the obvious disparity of the policy gave rise to an inference of discrimination.

The comments from the court though are interesting and echo what I said about it being based on an aged association of long hair with a social stigma.

“It is also worth reiterating that Coach Meyer’s policy prohibits far more than an Age-of-Aquarius, Tiny-Tim, hair-crawling-past-the-shoulders sort of hair style – it compels all male basketball players to wear genuinely short hair,” Judge Ilana Rovner wrote for the majority. “In 2014, it is not obvious that any and all hair worn over the ears, collar, or eyebrows would be out of the mainstream among males in the Greensburg community at large, among the student body, or among school athletes. (Even one or two men on this court might find themselves in trouble with Coach Meyer for hair over the ears.)”

[Locke]

Holy crap, it has nothing to do with racism or discrimination. It might be a somewhat antiquated coaching technique, but its fairly standard and for the love of God its not that big a deal.

If anyone had pulled this kind of stunt on any team their teammates should be ridiculing them.

You're too cool to cut your hair in accordance with team policy and so you got your mommy to tape the coach and fight for you because her son couldnt bear to part with his luscious golden locks?

Unreal.

Teams have policies, if you want to be part of the team then you have to follow the policies. Some teams dont have player's names on the back of their jerseys, some teams have grooming policies, in swimming you have to shave, some teams dont want high jersey numbers, whatever, they're team policies.

If you want to be part of the team then you have to conform to the team's standards and policies. If you dont like it then take the jersey off and go play an individual sport.

Or did he want to wear a tye-dye jersey and whatever coloured hat he liked best too? Thats probably his mom's next battle.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ya, lets take the views of the german guy on conforming to authority.

Haha! I've coached every age group and gender at every level of soccer and if a kid pulled this on me I'd be livid.

It isnt super important, and its not the end of the world and my reaction would have been much different than this coach's, thats part of coaching. Odds are with the right pushes he'd have wound up doing it eventually anyways.

[photon]

If it's not a big deal then dropping the hair length requirement while focusing on other more meaningful less arbitrary ways to promote a sense of team shouldn't be a big deal.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by photon

If it's not a big deal then dropping the hair length requirement while focusing on other more meaningful less arbitrary ways to promote a sense of team shouldn't be a big deal.

And it probably normally wouldnt be, but Queen Momula over there recorded the coach and broadcast him all over the internet taking the whole stupid thing and blowing it up to the next level.

I have to say though, in my years of coaching I had the kids and parents sign an agreement at the start of the season outlining their duties and mine. This is one of those things that would have been in it and any reservations or issues with the agreement would have been determined prior to acceptance and then been resolved.

The guy is a coach and hes going to coach the way he feels its best, coaches are no less quirky than athletes, but their whole goal is to get the best out of their players and make it fun at the same time. There are ways to do this but by recording the coach and going behind his back now all parties have lost any semblance of trust and this is a war. When a coach and a player and a parent are at war absolutely nothing good will ever develop.

Calm, rational discourse is always the best course of action, but this mom sold him out and now the situation has gone beyond repair.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

If you're going to claim I compared it to slavery then quote the post in which I said it. That's right, you can't.

I'll bet you I can.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Is he funding it?

Is it for him or his advancement?

It isn't his team.

If he's the coach, it's his team. Hartley isn't the AGM, GM, President, and/or owner, but he is the coach. He coaches the team the best way he sees fit. Obviously not everyone will agree with the methods, but it's still his team. If you coach a team, it's your team. You can be fired from it, and then it will be someone else's team.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I'll bet you I can.



If he's the coach, it's his team. Hartley isn't the AGM, GM, President, and/or owner, but he is the coach. He coaches the team the best way he sees fit. Obviously not everyone will agree with the methods, but it's still his team. If you coach a team, it's your team. You can be fired from it, and then it will be someone else's team.

You see, here's the thing that people seem to be ignoring.

This is not a professional sports team.

What Derek Jeter does with his hair, or how Bob Hartley coaches the Flames, or whatever any other person involved with professional sports does, is irrelevant.

The only thing anyone should care about when it comes to children's sports are the kids having fun and getting something out of it.

The coach's feelings don't count. They just don't matter. The baseball team wasn't put together to feed his fragile ego.

This idiotic hair fetish this frustrated dickhead has is only about his own comically dated notions of what is right and wrong.

He's barring a kid from playing baseball because he doesn't like his haircut. That's it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You see, here's the thing that people seem to be ignoring.

This is not a professional sports team.

What Derek Jeter does with his hair, or how Bob Hartley coaches the Flames, or whatever any other person involved with professional sports does, is irrelevant.

The only thing anyone should care about when it comes to children's sports are the kids having fun and getting something out of it.

The coach's feelings don't count. They just don't matter. The baseball team wasn't put together to feed his fragile ego.

This idiotic hair fetish this frustrated dickhead has is only about his own comically dated notions of what is right and wrong.

He's barring a kid from playing baseball because he doesn't like his haircut. That's it.

See, theres where I dont agree with you.

Just because it isnt a professional team with players getting scholarships and going on to become pros doesnt mean its unimportant.

Who gives a crap about the kid's hair? The coach is asking him to be a team player. The rest of the team is cool, its the special snowflake thats causing issues.

Theres a lot to learn when you're part of a team, and the things that you learn will serve you well later in life.

I love it.

Employer: "Our dress code requires you to wear a tie and be clean shaven."

Special Snowflake Employee: "I dont like ties and my mommy says I dont have to wear them and I cant be parted from my amazing hairdo..."

Employer: "Awesome. You're fired. GTFO. NEXT!"

Its amazing what a slight change in context does.

Do you want to be part of the team or not? Either answer is okay, but there are consequences to both.

[RougeUnderoos]

How much do teenage baseball players get paid in Pincher Creek? If he's getting paid, like the employee in your scenario, then yeah, suck it up and cut that hair.

If, on the other hand, his parents are paying some sort of registration fee, then maybe coach's arbitrary rules should be a little flexible.

I would be interested to know what he's going to learn that will serve him well later in life.

"Yes son, I know it's a pointless rule and by cutting your hair you'll be kowtowing to a petty, small-minded egomaniac, but when you grow up, you'll know why doing this kind of thing is important".

Those are the people who really make it!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How much do teenage baseball players get paid in Pincher Creek? If he's getting paid, like the employee in your scenario, then yeah, suck it up and cut that hair.

If, on the other hand, his parents are paying some sort of registration fee, then maybe coach's arbitrary rules should be a little flexible.

I would be interested to know what he's going to learn that will serve him well later in life.

"Yes son, I know it's a pointless rule and by cutting your hair you'll be kowtowing to a petty, small-minded egomaniac, but when you grow up, you'll know why doing this kind of thing is important".

Those are the people who really make it!

I dont think the guy is an egomaniac. Team uniformity is a goddamn rule in team sports from grassroots all the way to the top. Hell, in soccer refs can disqualify a player because his shorts dont match the rest of the team's!

And, as I mentioned in previous posts, there are tons of ways to deal with this but this guy got submarined by an over-zealous supermom with a cellphone camera and then those options flew out the window.

Hes clearly been an excellent coach for a long time or at least most people have been happy with him.

I hope supermom is happy that hes now likely going to quit and almost no volunteer is going to take her son on their team for fear of being plastered all over the internet.

If you disagree with a team policy who do you go to?

The person who instituted it.

What do you say to him?

Why you disagree with it.

Then the concerned parties figure something out.

You dont get your mother to demonize a volunteer all over the internet just to save her precious snowflake's unreasonably valuable and completely irreplaceable golden locks.

[RougeUnderoos]

The kid's mom is clearly a busybody and an annoying one at that, but the kid was getting punted for his hair before she made her little video.

Anyway, you mentioned you've coached kids of all genders and ages. What goddamn team uniformity rule did you have for the hair length of the girl's teams? Did you ever have to kick a girl off the team for having short hair? Too long maybe? What hair-related reasons did you have to keep a kid off the field?

And IIRC, the guy's rationale wasn't even about uniformity, but "respect" and "respect for yourself". And of course "I'm the coach". None of these are real reasons, and certainly not enough to stop a child from playing sports.

[JMN]

Originally Posted by Locke

Employer: "Our dress code requires you to wear a tie and be clean shaven."

Special Snowflake Employee: "I dont like ties and my mommy says I dont have to wear them and I cant be parted from my amazing hairdo..."

Employer: "Awesome. You're fired. GTFO. NEXT!"

Its amazing what a slight change in context does.

The difference is that we're adults and get paid to work. The kid is a kid and pays (well, his parents) to have fun playing sports.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

If he's the coach, it's his team. Hartley isn't the AGM, GM, President, and/or owner, but he is the coach. He coaches the team the best way he sees fit. Obviously not everyone will agree with the methods, but it's still his team. If you coach a team, it's your team. You can be fired from it, and then it will be someone else's team.

So to be clear, you are comparing a for profit business at the highest level of sport, to a parent funded kids team.........

Nice try, but not even close. Kids sport is for kids, not for the coach.

[photon]

Calling the kid a special snowflake is both an assumption about his motivation and character, as well as trying to invalidate his position based on that assumption about his character, all of which is flawed reasoning. Poisoning the well and ad hominem. Not to mention just being an appeal to emotions.

His motivations and character aren't relevant to the rightness or wrongness of the hair length rule.

Focusing on how the mom handled it is similar, it's not actually relevant to the rightness of the rule, everyone's actions just dictate how messy the situation gets but shouldn't be part of a discussion about the rule itself.

And there's enough blame to go around, intransigence can be just as provoking as videoing.

[photon]

Calling the kid a special snowflake is both an assumption about his motivation and character, as well as trying to invalidate his position based on that assumption about his character, all of which is flawed reasoning. Poisoning the well and ad hominem. Not to mention just being an appeal to emotions.

His motivations and character aren't relevant to the rightness or wrongness of the hair length rule.

Focusing on how the mom handled it is similar, it's not actually relevant to the rightness of the rule, everyone's actions just dictate how messy the situation gets but shouldn't be part of a discussion about the rule itself.

And there's enough blame to go around, intransigence can be just as provoking as videoing.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Try reading my posts and you'd actually see I never did that.

Okay, I'll bite.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

I guess the Blacks should have just kept following the rules and kept standing on the bus and not drinking out of the white people fountain. Since following the old idiotic rules is so important.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

He was discriminated against the exact same way that black people got and get discriminated against everyday.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Lots of stupid rules have slowly made their way out of society. Such as no Black people drinking from a White people fountain. The connection is clear as day.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

So how were they eventually able to drink from the White man's fountain?

They fought and changed the rules.

Looks to me like you compared them directly.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You see, here's the thing that people seem to be ignoring.

This is not a professional sports team.

What Derek Jeter does with his hair, or how Bob Hartley coaches the Flames, or whatever any other person involved with professional sports does, is irrelevant.

The only thing anyone should care about when it comes to children's sports are the kids having fun and getting something out of it.

The coach's feelings don't count. They just don't matter. The baseball team wasn't put together to feed his fragile ego.

This idiotic hair fetish this frustrated dickhead has is only about his own comically dated notions of what is right and wrong.

He's barring a kid from playing baseball because he doesn't like his haircut. That's it.

Fun story: Andy Bilesky was a little league coach in my home town of Trail, BC. He's the only coach to take a team to the LLWS more than three times, and he did it five times. Andy required his kids to bring their full uniform to practice. It didn't matter that the temperature in Trail gets disgustingly hot and muggy in the summer, you brought your warm up jackets On one day a player didn't bring his jacket to practice. Andy made that player go home and write "I will bring my jacket to practice" 300 times. He brought it back to the park and was allowed to practice. Does this seem a little much? Maybe, but if you want to be on the team, you follow the rules. That player was a 12 year old Jason Bay, who later went on to be the NL rookie of the year.

In my opinion, following team rules, even the minor ones helps build character and respect. Of course his hair doesn't affect his ability to hit or catch a ball, but by buying into the system, you are building teamwork skills. It's similar to school when you learn algebra. You might not use algebra directly, but it helps you train your decision, thinking and problem solving skills.

I fully understand that it's not a professional sports team, but when do you learn how to act like a professional. Do you just do your own thing and follow your own rules until you make it to the majors? Why wouldn't you use the teenage years to learn how to act professionally? Even if you don't make the majors, which 99% won't, so you still learn how to be part of a team. Having fun isn't the only benefit from sports. You can learn how to lose, and win, and be a member of a team. Wearing a uniform is part of sports.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So to be clear, you are comparing a for profit business at the highest level of sport, to a parent funded kids team.........

Nice try, but not even close. Kids sport is for kids, not for the coach.

I am saying the coach of any team takes "ownership" of the team, from the bottom level to the top. When I played baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball and curling as a kid, that I saw the coach being the one in charge. If I wanted to be on the team, I did things his way. I didn't always like everything, but those were the rules. I always felt like it was his team, and if he wanted to cut me, he could. This was not sports at the highest level. This was from the time I was six through eighteen. I took a lot of those life lessons, and they are useful to me as an adult.