05-02-2014, 12:48 PM
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#141
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
Wouldn't give up much to go from 4th to 1st mind you. Would depend on if Tallon is looking for a big return or not. Would do a package for it straight up but I'd only be offering vets and mid-range prospects -- Glencross, Wideman, Knight, Ramage, etc. Theycan have david jones for free.
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Not sure if Knight would appreciate that.
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05-02-2014, 12:55 PM
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#142
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#1 Goaltender
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NHL draft: What does it cost to trade up?
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...lue-trading-up
Similar to NFL value charts, but for the NHL draft. Of course this is the average cost (picks only - no players) in an average year, and is not very accurate for the top 5 or 10 as there is few examples as well as large year-to-year talent gaps. But, interesting nonetheless.
__________________
"I think the eye test is still good, but analytics can sure give you confirmation: what you see...is that what you really believe?"
Scotty Bowman, 0 NHL games played
Last edited by united; 05-02-2014 at 01:00 PM.
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05-02-2014, 01:23 PM
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#143
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Franchise Player
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What crazy salary dump could Flames take to get this pick from FLA?
Are the owners budget minded?
Is there any way to get this without giving up this year's or next year's 1st?
Salary dump + both CGY seconds this year?
A Flames prospect pool with the addition of Ekblad and whoever is BPA at 4th would be amazing!
Last edited by Badgers Nose; 05-02-2014 at 01:27 PM.
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05-02-2014, 01:26 PM
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#144
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Franchise Player
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wow, closest thing to a bad contract is Campbell, and Tallon likes him.
darn, this is not one of those 'let the other team out of cap jail' opportunities that Feaster used to always bring up
it's probably too expensive to acquire that pick
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05-02-2014, 01:38 PM
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#145
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Do the Panthers even need to do a salary dump? Aren't they essentially in the same boat the Flames are? Struggling to make the cap floor...
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05-02-2014, 01:40 PM
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#146
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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I think they also have new ownership that has stated are ready to spend a little $$. They will dip heavily in the free agent pool this summer I believe
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05-02-2014, 01:42 PM
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#147
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
Do the Panthers even need to do a salary dump? Aren't they essentially in the same boat the Flames are? Struggling to make the cap floor...
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Even if they were trying to dump a bad contract, I doubt they'd be holding the 1st overall pick as bait/incentive. That's too high of a price to pay to dump salary. They could easily give up a B level prospect or 2nd round picks in order to do that. I think they are looking for help now.
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05-02-2014, 01:42 PM
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#148
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GOAT!
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I still think a sign-and-trade deal involving Cammy, our 4th and a portion of Cammy's cap hit is enough to get Florida's 1st.
The question is... do we really need to move up 3 spots that badly?
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05-02-2014, 01:49 PM
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#149
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Why would Cammy want to go to the Panthers? The (supposed) reason why he's not singing here is that he wants to play for a contender while he still has something left in the tank.
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05-02-2014, 02:09 PM
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#150
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by united
NHL draft: What does it cost to trade up?
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...lue-trading-up
Similar to NFL value charts, but for the NHL draft. Of course this is the average cost (picks only - no players) in an average year, and is not very accurate for the top 5 or 10 as there is few examples as well as large year-to-year talent gaps. But, interesting nonetheless.
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Interesting. On this math, valuing Baertschi at or around his draft position, Baertschi + both the Flames second round picks would equal the NYI 5th overall pick, also speculated by some to be available.
No idea what that means - just interesting.
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05-02-2014, 02:12 PM
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#151
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Franchise Player
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If Florida does not feel that there is a significant gap between Ekland and Rienhart and have Draisaitl-Bennett-Dal Colle ranked higher they could be just thinking that Edmonton should want Ekblad and will likely get him with their #3 if they picked Bennett or Draisaiti.
If they are able to squeeze an asset out of Edmonton (even Yakapov) and still get the player they wanted all along that would be a reason to shop the #1.
Last year they passed on Seth Jones and got nothing for it. Picking Barkov was not that much better, if better at all, than getting Lindholm, Monahan or Nichushkin.
there would be no team that today would offer Jones, Lindholm, Monahan or Nichushkin plus their 2014 2nd round pick for Barkov.
If the Flames have Ekblad as the clear cut #1 pick franchise D-man it would make sense to offer our #4 pick plus either Baertschi, Klimchuck or Poirier to get him.
That way Florida gets who they really want with the #4 pick plus a guy with a 90% chance to be a useful NHLer.
From the Flames perspective (same contract as Monahan) they obviously think that Gaudreau will take Baertschi's spot in the top 6 as the small forward. Having another small forward Byron pass Baertschi and their best forward Hudler being small makes Baertschi window to make the Flames really small.
Last edited by ricardodw; 05-02-2014 at 02:16 PM.
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05-02-2014, 02:18 PM
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#152
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox
Interesting. On this math, valuing Baertschi at or around his draft position, Baertschi + both the Flames second round picks would equal the NYI 5th overall pick, also speculated by some to be available.
No idea what that means - just interesting.
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A couple things to keep in mind...
1) it is a guideline only, and the talent at the top in any given year can vary substantially, and
2) it works better for draft picks than for prospects because it is difficult to equate a prospect like Baertschi to a draft pick. Is he worth a 13th overall (like where he was drafted)? Is he worth more because he is pretty much NHL ready? I certainly wouldn't trade him for this year's 13th overall. Maybe something in the top 10 - 6th to 8th maybe?
But the problem is that each person would evaluate him differently. The 8th pick is the 8th pick. But I might think Baertschi is worth the 6th pick and you might think he's worth the 10th pick and the next guy thinks he's worth a top 5 pick. So plugging him into that chart becomes very challenging.
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05-02-2014, 02:22 PM
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#153
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
I'm sorry, are you suggesting:
Hudler + Brodie + Baertschi or Gaudreau + Backlund + Wotherspoon + 2nd
for Ekblad?
Are you out of your fricking mind?
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Nope. I guessed you skimmed my post because I thought I made it obvious it was an overpayment. It was designed to show those who think we don't have the assets to get the #1 pick that we actually do. I said it was an overpayment and we could dial it back from there.
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05-02-2014, 02:25 PM
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#154
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
A couple things to keep in mind...
1) it is a guideline only, and the talent at the top in any given year can vary substantially, and
2) it works better for draft picks than for prospects because it is difficult to equate a prospect like Baertschi to a draft pick. Is he worth a 13th overall (like where he was drafted)? Is he worth more because he is pretty much NHL ready? I certainly wouldn't trade him for this year's 13th overall. Maybe something in the top 10 - 6th to 8th maybe?
But the problem is that each person would evaluate him differently. The 8th pick is the 8th pick. But I might think Baertschi is worth the 6th pick and you might think he's worth the 10th pick and the next guy thinks he's worth a top 5 pick. So plugging him into that chart becomes very challenging.
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I agree with you whole-heartedly. I still find it an interesting guideline for pure scoping though. Baertschi seems to still be drafted around 11th in the 2011 redrafts, isn't an NHLer yet, but looks to be one. While very arbitrary, helps put the potential value of a pick in some perspective, at least to me.
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05-02-2014, 02:27 PM
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#155
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Scoring Winger
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0 chance Edmonton admits to a mistake and gives Yakupov just to move up, complete overpayment.
Ward thinks that Poirier will be a productive NHLer in 20-30 goal range.
To give up our pick plus one of our top prospects just to move up to take a player that is not clearly better than what we can get with our 4th is Insanity.
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05-02-2014, 02:29 PM
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#156
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Amsterdam
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Wideman + Glencross + Hudler+Knight for their first. Draft Ekblad and a center. Make it happen pizza taco GM.
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05-02-2014, 02:32 PM
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#157
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
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Treliving said he builds his teams back from the back out...Ekblad would certainly fit the bill. Not gonna make a theoretical proposal but I definitely think he will be having some discourse with Tallon.
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05-02-2014, 02:34 PM
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#158
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnner
Wideman + Glencross + Hudler+Knight for their first. Draft Ekblad and a center. Make it happen pizza taco GM.
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The best part about this trade that it will guarantee top 3 pick in 2015 .
We can also pay Butler 10 million to get to the cap floor.
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05-02-2014, 02:35 PM
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#159
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox
I agree with you whole-heartedly. I still find it an interesting guideline for pure scoping though. Baertschi seems to still be drafted around 11th in the 2011 redrafts, isn't an NHLer yet, but looks to be one. While very arbitrary, helps put the potential value of a pick in some perspective, at least to me.
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Oh I completely agree. I think it is an excellent guideline and the appropriate starting point in trying to determine value.
As long as the idiosyncrasies of the current season are taken into consideration.
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05-02-2014, 02:43 PM
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#160
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoforever
The best part about this trade that it will guarantee top 3 pick in 2015 .
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Quite frankly, I think that's a reason you entertain trading Giordano.
If you're going to suck, you might as well REALLY suck.
If you can trade giordano and suck for a year or two, but be REALLY good in years 4 and 5 because you selected both Ekblad and Bennett in this years draft, moving Giordano is worth it.
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