[Rumour] Tallon Actively Shopping 1st Overall Pick in 2014 Draft

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't think he was valued at much at the time.

just from looking him up

he was a 26 year old who had just put up 2 goals in 22 games for Pitt (6 goals in 67 games the year before for NYR)

he didn't have a real breakout season until he got to Detroit 3 years later, he was essentially a throw in it looks like

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There is nothing the flames would move that gets them the 1st pick while keeping the 4th.

Pieces that Florida would consider would be Monahan or a combo of Sven or Johnny paired with our 2015 first. Just won't happen.

Honestly Vancouver is in a spot to do it if they move their 6th pick plus one of their better vets like Kesler or Edler. Get Luongo on the phone to convince them to waive I could see that happening.

Edmonton as well they have a pick that guarantees te Panthers still get a Sam plus they could move Yakupov who had a sophomore slump but still could be the Panthers answer as top line RW

I think if the Flames are willing to move 4 to get up to 1 they could do it but the cost is likely Backlund, Baertschi, Brodie, or Gaudreau. With there being no clear cut #1 I say keep the pick and keep our players

Yakupov didn't have a sophmore slump. Yakupov just isn't good.

[FlameZilla]

A quick look at the Florida depth chart shows that they could use help, well, nearly everywhere. They seem deepest at C, and they have some dinosaur D-men in Campbell & Jovo-cop.

Maybe they'd be interested in players like Jiri Hudler & Dennis Wideman, if serviceable veterans are what they want.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing the 4th overall flipped for #1. To have the choice of Ekblad, Reinhart or Bennett would ensure we get the exact prospect we want, rather than leave it to chance.

As had been pointed out, moving up 3 spots in a draft that many say is below average could be a pretty negligible price. Let's see what Bur-- err Treliving can come up with!

[AcGold]

Trading Giordano would be suicide, a team is more than one guy and he managed to unify them along with Hartley. His work ethic permeates through the team and it's worth keeping over nearly every other player in the NHL because for years he can have a positive influence on Johnny, Sven, Monahan etc. Keep Gio until he can't work hard anymore then hire him as a trainer or assistant coach because there are a few people in the world that can bring what he does.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What interests me almost as much is how likely Florida would be to trade their 2015 1st round pick. It is a far superior draft, but they are also probably thinking they will be more competitive next year. Bit of a gamble on their part, and whomever trades for it. A key injury or two might end up keeping them as a lottery team. There are a lot of hypotheticals for that scenario, and I have no clue what would constitute a fair offer in the least.

The draft next year is in Florida. So no, can't see then dealing next years at all.

[dammage79]

The top four are close. But if a team like Calgary is absolutely smitten with Ekblad and you can make the trade for the number one pick to guarantee you get the guy would want, then they'll make the trade.

I'm kind of over trade proposals but if Sven and #4 can land you Hayes and #1. I think it benefits both teams. But whatever, it is what it is.

At the end of the day, if the top pick is up for grabs, you make the phone calls and you keep calling until they tell you to eff off. Especially if you want the first pick of the litter to guarantee you get the player you want.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Very little difference between the top 4 guys - no way I would give up much to move from 4th to 1st.

But getting the pick without giving up the 4th would interest me.

Something starting with Backlund?

Backlund and Baertschi is a lot.

Backlund, Reinhart and a 2nd?

would you trade 4th overall for Tommy Wingels + a 2nd round pick and a prospect who projects as a 3rd line forward

because that's what you essentially just offered for 1st overall

[indes]

No point in trading up to get first. That being said if we got the 1st pick and kept our seconds we would pretty much have to take ekblad or else we would end up with 2 centers

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There is nothing the flames would move that gets them the 1st pick while keeping the 4th.

Pieces that Florida would consider would be Monahan or a combo of Sven or Johnny paired with our 2015 first. Just won't happen.

Honestly Vancouver is in a spot to do it if they move their 6th pick plus one of their better vets like Kesler or Edler. Get Luongo on the phone to convince them to waive I could see that happening.

Edmonton as well they have a pick that guarantees te Panthers still get a Sam plus they could move Yakupov who had a sophomore slump but still could be the Panthers answer as top line RW

I think if the Flames are willing to move 4 to get up to 1 they could do it but the cost is likely Backlund, Baertschi, Brodie, or Gaudreau. With there being no clear cut #1 I say keep the pick and keep our players

You're suggesting Kesler + #6 for #1 overall?

That is flat out ridiculous - the degree to which you overvalue the #1 pick is off the charts. Kesler is worth more than the pick alone. The difference between the #6 and the #1 this year is probably a mid-first round pick or maybe a Jensen at most - and you are suggesting Kesler? Even if it were a MacKinnon or a McDavid, that is a lot to pay. But for an Ekblad, that is flat out horrific.

Let's take a look at your Flame proposal of Gaudreau + our 2015 first:

The 2015 first is worth more than this year's #1 - or at least they are exchangeable assets: do you gamble for more next year or take the sure thing now? Debatable. But to add Gaudreau to that is again, a brutal proposal.

You, like so many fans, massively over-value draft picks. You are sounding like an Oiler fan here: to trade the Yakupov pick, I would want Weber + 2nd. Yeah okay.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

A few things

1) It's really hard to tell what the price would be to move up. Not sure if would be worth it if he's asking a lot
2) Much more interested in trading for the #1 pick outright
3) Don't understand those posters who think we don't have the pieces to trade for the #1 pick outright. We're as flush with quality prospects as we've ever been in the last 20 years

To go to the extreme end, would Tallon be able to turn down an offer of:
Hudler
Brodie
one of Baertschi/Gaudreau
one of Backlund/Granlund
one of Wotherspoon/Sieloff
plus a high 2nd rounder

for the #1 overall?

I don't see how he could turn down an offer like that. It's an overpayment from us so you can dial it back from there but the Flames can afford to do a bit of a quantity for quality type deal where we give up 4 attractive pieces for the #1. So to say we don't have the pieces required to trade for the pick outright seems a bit silly.

No idea what pieces Tallon values most but if he happens to value a few of our undersized forwards/forward prospects then we could make a really franchise changing move by switching them + other pieces to get a big 6'4 pillar defenseman to help anchor our defense for the next decade.

Personally I don't want to give up Brodie, Gaudreau and Poirier in particular. But some combination of Baertschi, Backlund, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Klimchuk, Reinhart, 2nd rounders, etc should be attractive especially if he likes one of our tradeable vets in addition.

Treliving and Burke should definitely be all over this IMO. Getting 2 of the top 4 guys in this draft including Ekblad would be ridiculous going forward and we have the depth to be able to make a competitive offer without completely depleting our system.

[BlackWallStreet]

FFS Tallon just keep the dang pick and draft ekblad so we can get bennett

Jerk

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

would you trade 4th overall for Tommy Wingels + a 2nd round pick and a prospect who projects as a 3rd line forward

because that's what you essentially just offered for 1st overall

The Flames 2nd is 34th overall.

Reinhart is a better prospect than you are giving him credit for I think. Plus he is NHL-ready, which is of value to Florida. He definitely has the potential to be an effective two-way player that can score 20 goals.

We can debate Backlund's value but that has been done many times on these boards and doesn't need to be done again. Some people see a solid 2nd line C in the making there, and some see a 3rd line C. What matters is what Tallon thinks of him.

I don't think that offer is a bunch of scraps, but everyone has their own opinions.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're suggesting Kesler + #6 for #1 overall?

That is flat out ridiculous - the degree to which you overvalue the #1 pick is off the charts. Kesler is worth more than the pick alone. The difference between the #6 and the #1 this year is probably a mid-first round pick or maybe a Jensen at most - and you are suggesting Kesler? Even if it were a MacKinnon or a McDavid, that is a lot to pay. But for an Ekblad, that is flat out horrific.

Let's take a look at your Flame proposal of Gaudreau + our 2015 first:

The 2015 first is worth more than this year's #1 - or at least they are exchangeable assets: do you gamble for more next year or take the sure thing now? Debatable. But to add Gaudreau to that is again, a brutal proposal.

You, like so many fans, massively over-value draft picks. You are sounding like an Oiler fan here: to trade the Yakupov pick, I would want Weber + 2nd. Yeah okay.

Look at all the 1st overall picks since the lockout of 04. Of those picks only Johnson and Yakupov are not looking like pieces to build around and Nuge has been a bit of a let down but still has massive potential. Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, MacKinnon are all elite players.

Would you trade any of them for Kesler straight up? In what world is a rebuilding team trading a 1st overall for a broken down 30 year old. I also believe Florida adds to that proposal with a player like Upahall which I mentioned in an earlier post.

Why on earth would Florida trade down 5 spots for a garbage prospect like Jensen? Ask yourself that question that is an absolute garbage move for Florida there is no incentive at all to make that trade. When a team wants to move a coveted pick they need to be enticed. Not given a player that wouldn't even crack the top 10 in their own prospect pool.

2015 1st is interchangeable if it lands in the top 5 but if the flames would entertain moving that pick you would think they might try and be a little more competitive? Why would Florida move a number 1 pick for a pick that could end up being 10 or higher?

Draft picks have become more valuable in the cap world especially top picks. Trades are harder to make and free agents are overpaid which means developing your own players is the best path to win. 1st overalls have proven to be pillar type players in the past 10 years so why give them away for less than an overpayment?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A few things

1) It's really hard to tell what the price would be to move up. Not sure if would be worth it if he's asking a lot
2) Much more interested in trading for the #1 pick outright
3) Don't understand those posters who think we don't have the pieces to trade for the #1 pick outright. We're as flush with quality prospects as we've ever been in the last 20 years

To go to the extreme end, would Tallon be able to turn down an offer of:
Hudler
Brodie
one of Baertschi/Gaudreau
one of Backlund/Granlund
one of Wotherspoon/Sieloff
plus a high 2nd rounder

for the #1 overall?

I don't see how he could turn down an offer like that. It's an overpayment from us so you can dial it back from there but the Flames can afford to do a bit of a quantity for quality type deal where we give up 4 attractive pieces for the #1. So to say we don't have the pieces required to trade for the pick outright seems a bit silly.

No idea what pieces Tallon values most but if he happens to value a few of our undersized forwards/forward prospects then we could make a really franchise changing move by switching them + other pieces to get a big 6'4 pillar defenseman to help anchor our defense for the next decade.

Personally I don't want to give up Brodie, Gaudreau and Poirier in particular. But some combination of Baertschi, Backlund, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Klimchuk, Reinhart, 2nd rounders, etc should be attractive especially if he likes one of our tradeable vets in addition.

Treliving and Burke should definitely be all over this IMO. Getting 2 of the top 4 guys in this draft including Ekblad would be ridiculous going forward and we have the depth to be able to make a competitive offer without completely depleting our system.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting:

Hudler + Brodie + Baertschi or Gaudreau + Backlund + Wotherspoon + 2nd

for Ekblad?

Are you out of your fricking mind?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Look at all the 1st overall picks since the lockout of 04. Of those picks only Johnson and Yakupov are not looking like pieces to build around and Nuge has been a bit of a let down but still has massive potential. Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, MacKinnon are all elite players.

Would you trade any of them for Kesler straight up? In what world is a rebuilding team trading a 1st overall for a broken down 30 year old. I also believe Florida adds to that proposal with a player like Upahall which I mentioned in an earlier post.

Why on earth would Florida trade down 5 spots for a garbage prospect like Jensen? Ask yourself that question that is an absolute garbage move for Florida there is no incentive at all to make that trade. When a team wants to move a coveted pick they need to be enticed. Not given a player that wouldn't even crack the top 10 in their own prospect pool.

2015 1st is interchangeable if it lands in the top 5 but if the flames would entertain moving that pick you would think they might try and be a little more competitive? Why would Florida move a number 1 pick for a pick that could end up being 10 or higher?

Draft picks have become more valuable in the cap world especially top picks. Trades are harder to make and free agents are overpaid which means developing your own players is the best path to win. 1st overalls have proven to be pillar type players in the past 10 years so why give them away for less than an overpayment?

The chances of Ekblad entering the level of the bolded players is somewhere between unlikely and remote.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I'm sorry, are you suggesting:

Hudler + Brodie + Baertschi or Gaudreau + Backlund + Wotherspoon + 2nd

for Ekblad?

Are you out of your fricking mind?

I think he is making the point we have the assets to get the pick straight up without moving the 4th. That is not debatable bit the key is the pieces required to land the 1st while keeping the 4th is not worth it to the flames

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The chances of Ekblad entering the level of the bolded players is somewhere between unlikely and remote.

What about Reinhart, or Bennett?

Why can't Ekblad turn out to be a Shea Weber type Dman?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BlackWallStreet

FFS Tallon just keep the dang pick and draft ekblad so we can get bennett

Jerk

Doubtful Bennett's available when the Flames pick as the Oilers would likely take him if he makes it past the Panthers and Sabres.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What about Reinhart, or Bennett?

Why can't Ekblad turn out to be a Shea Weber type Dman?

He can - it's possible. But you don't give up Kesler + #6 overall for the chance.

That is massive overpayment.

And at this point, Reinhart and Bennett are not in the Kane, Stamkos, Tavares level for potential. Of course they might turn out better. But today, going into the draft, there is no Stamkos-level prospect waiting for the holder of the 1st overall pick.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What about Reinhart, or Bennett?

Why can't Ekblad turn out to be a Shea Weber type Dman?

Many experts are saying that Ekblad is not #1 dman. Could he become one perhaps.
If he will become only #2 guy in few years, is he worth more than Brodie?