Bob Mckenzie: Flames could have had Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester

[Brannigans Law]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

My pet peeve with Feaster and Weisbrod was that they always seems to think they were a little bit smarter than the rest....
Still, 1st + Cundari + Berr

Originally Posted by trublmaker

So your'e saying you want a GM who thinks he's a little stupider than the rest?

I don't know if you're purposefully missing the point of this post or not. Saying that someone always thinks they're smarter than the rest or the smartest person in the room is typically not a compliment. It usually means you're dealing with an egomaniac risk taker who's arrogant and thinks they can do no wrong. That thinks they always see something others have missed. I want a smart and confident GM. I don't want a guy who's always thinking he's the smartest man in the room with get rich quick schemes.

[theoforever]

Sutter always thought he was smartest guy in the room, he took gambles non stop.
Feaster never came across that way.
He just made big statements.

Nothing wrong with a GM that tries to find talent everywhere.

Btw.
Cervenka and ROR had other offers.
So, there were a few smartest men in the room.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

This team probably has more dead money in David Jones, Wideman and SOB than when Feaster started as GM.

Who were our boat anchors then?

Hagman (3M), Kotalik (3M) and maybe Langkow (4.5M) ?
VS
Jones (4M), SOB (2M) and Wideman (5.25M)

I'd say they are pretty comparable..... the only difference I guess as far as cap space goes is :
Darryl left Iginla, Regehr, Kiprusoff, Bouw, Glencross, Bork and Gio (Backlund, Brodie as prospects)
VS
Feaster left/added Hudler, Monohan, Russell and Ramo...in addition to Glencross, Gio, Backlund and Brodie from the previous regime

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Sutter always thought he was smartest guy in the room, he took gambles non stop.
Feaster never came across that way.
He just made big statements.

Nothing wrong with a GM that tries to find talent everywhere.

Btw.
Cervenka and ROR had other offers.
So, there were a few smartest men in the room.

What other offers did ROR have other than the one from Colorado?

Cervenka was rumoured to have several, even going back to the previous year I believe. Even though it didn't work, I loved the gamble. I hope the Flames continue to look for the "best players outside the NHL" every year..

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by playmaker

fyp

I agree and see your point.

The 1st, a high one, was at the time an unknown. Poirer looks fantastic and will be a player, but the odds of a 20 something pick are iffy.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

So your'e saying you want a GM who thinks he's a little stupider than the rest?

No, try again.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What other offers did ROR have other than the one from Colorado?

Cervenka was rumoured to have several, even going back to the previous year I believe. Even though it didn't work, I loved the gamble. I hope the Flames continue to look for the "best players outside the NHL" every year..

Cervenka's signing and the year he had following is one of the bigger Feaster blunders.

The best centre not in the NHL turned out to be a ####ty soft winger who collected his million bucks (and who cost Calgary 3.775 million in capspace) and got the hell out of dodge.

Kaboom.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

A tonne of bad salary? Who?

Ya, bad salary was a poor choice of words on my part. I should have said he inherited a non playoff team near the cap and the contract limit and left us with lots of space and flexibility.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Cervenka's signing and the year he had following is one of the bigger Feaster blunders.

The best centre not in the NHL turned out to be a ####ty soft winger who collected his million bucks (and who cost Calgary 3.775 million in capspace) and got the hell out of dodge.

Kaboom.

A million bucks is small change in the NHL these days and the cap space is irrelevant to us at this point.

I do think that missing training camp due to a lockout and having that blood clot issue really hurt his rhythm and adjustment to the NHL though. Circumstances were against Cervenka.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Cervenka's signing and the year he had following is one of the bigger Feaster blunders.

The best centre not in the NHL turned out to be a ####ty soft winger who collected his million bucks (and who cost Calgary 3.775 million in capspace) and got the hell out of dodge.

Kaboom.

The Cervenka signing is barely anything. Haven't the foggiest why anyone makes an issue with that. He was given a high cap hit, which wasn't an issue with our team, only paid a million, and was an experiment for a season. It didn't work out and he left.

You can harp on plenty of things Feaster did, Cervenka barely registers though. I have no problem with a GM trying out an older euro player for a year, it didn't negatively effect the Flames an iota.

If that Wolf fellow from Germany comes over for one season and is a total blunder for Burke, it's really nothing. Don't mind these types of moves. I could understand if we were tight against the cap or needed a contact spot but neither of those situations were in play.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What other offers did ROR have other than the one from Colorado?

Cervenka was rumoured to have several, even going back to the previous year I believe. Even though it didn't work, I loved the gamble. I hope the Flames continue to look for the "best players outside the NHL" every year..

The word in local media was that there were 3 or 4 teams kicking tires and offers were made but ROR picked Calgary. Of course the only GM and apparently the smartest man in the room Gillis from Van knew about the wrinkle. Well after the fact, he sure did.

Btw. After it became known that we most likely would have lost the picks I was of the believe that this incident was dismissible offence.
We got lucky and when he didn't get fired I was fine with that.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Who were our boat anchors then?

Hagman (3M), Kotalik (3M) and maybe Langkow (4.5M) ?
VS
Jones (4M), SOB (2M) and Wideman (5.25M)

I'd say they are pretty comparable..... the only difference I guess as far as cap space goes is :
Darryl left Iginla, Regehr, Kiprusoff, Bouw, Glencross, Bork and Gio (Backlund, Brodie as prospects)
VS
Feaster left/added Hudler, Monohan, Russell and Ramo...in addition to Glencross, Gio, Backlund and Brodie from the previous regime

Sarich at 3.6 per year was one back than, was overpaid by 1 million. Langkow was really never a boat anchor for the Flames as the one year he was on LTIR when he wasn't as productive and they still were able to trade him for Stempniak during the last year of his contract. Stajan was more of a boat anchor than Langkow was.

The issue I have with Jones and or Wideman is the contract terms that they have. Jones had 4 full years on his contract when the Flames traded for him. Feaster gave Wideman 5 years when it was a better bet to pay him for 3. Even O'Brien, they offed Sarich who had 1 year on his deal for a guy who was less usefull and had two years left. Largely necessitated because they wanted to trade 3 years of Tanguays contract....

[theoforever]

Perhaps it was better to sign Wideman to 3 years but was it better for Wideman?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The Cervenka signing is barely anything. Haven't the foggiest why anyone makes an issue with that. He was given a high cap hit, which wasn't an issue with our team, only paid a million, and was an experiment for a season. It didn't work out and he left.

You can harp on plenty of things Feaster did, Cervenka barely registers though. I have no problem with a GM trying out an older euro player for a year, it didn't negatively effect the Flames an iota.

If that Wolf fellow from Germany comes over for one season and is a total blunder for Burke, it's really nothing. Don't mind these types of moves. I could understand if we were tight against the cap or needed a contact spot but neither of those situations were in play.

From a financial standpoint it was a worthwhile gamble. The big issue though is that the Flames had Iginla and Kipper, brought in Wideman, Hudler and were still going "all in" to make the playoffs and Feaster had Cervenka penciled in as a top 6 center and into the season it became apparent that he wasn't an NHL center and there were those lean weeks when Stajan was the only real center on the roster due to injuries and wingers were playing center that really hurt the team as the center position depth was a joke. I have no issues with the money but there wasn't a backup plan at the center position for him not panning out and that hurt the team. Personally while I like Jay Feaster I found that a major miscalculation as well as the ROR debacle that made him look pretty bad that season.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The Cervenka signing is barely anything. Haven't the foggiest why anyone makes an issue with that. He was given a high cap hit, which wasn't an issue with our team, only paid a million, and was an experiment for a season. It didn't work out and he left.

You can harp on plenty of things Feaster did, Cervenka barely registers though. I have no problem with a GM trying out an older euro player for a year, it didn't negatively effect the Flames an iota.

If that Wolf fellow from Germany comes over for one season and is a total blunder for Burke, it's really nothing. Don't mind these types of moves. I could understand if we were tight against the cap or needed a contact spot but neither of those situations were in play.

This is sort of what I"m talking about. I'm not trying to suggest that signing Cervenka cost the flames dearly, but it's one of Feaster's bigger blunders because of what it said about his ability to assess talent and implement a team building philosophy.

If this Wolf guy comes in and turns out to be nothing, it won't bother me much either. If Burke says this guy is going to be a top 6 forward for Calgary next year and he turns out to be a defensemen, it's serious cause for concern.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This is sort of what I"m talking about. I'm not trying to suggest that signing Cervenka cost the flames dearly, but it's one of Feaster's bigger blunders because of what it said about his ability to assess talent and implement a team building philosophy.

If this Wolf guy comes in and turns out to be nothing, it won't bother me much either. If Burke says this guy is going to be a top 6 forward for Calgary next year and he turns out to be a defensemen, it's serious cause for concern.

Still disagree.

I think Cervenka is at least as talented as Brunner. It just didn't work out.

That happens and it isn't Feaster's fault. He thought he could be a C and maybe you can throw some criticism on that, but if Cervenka had been successful as a winger, I don't think anyone would have cared.

Nothing wrong with giving guys a chance. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, that doesn't make the GM a bad assessor of talent.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This is sort of what I"m talking about. I'm not trying to suggest that signing Cervenka cost the flames dearly, but it's one of Feaster's bigger blunders because of what it said about his ability to assess talent and implement a team building philosophy.

If this Wolf guy comes in and turns out to be nothing, it won't bother me much either. If Burke says this guy is going to be a top 6 forward for Calgary next year and he turns out to be a defensemen, it's serious cause for concern.

I agree with FW here, I don't mind they took a risk (which was minimal). What scared the bejeezus out of me if Feaster committed so many dollars and planned out his roster (i.e. as a top 2 center) on a guy he never watched and knew nothing about. Now I get when CliffFletcher says a GM's job isn't just trades, but you still got to have know what the hell you are doing, essentially critical elements like this - especially if you were going to gamble. To further see how things snowballed, the lack of center forced Feaster to make a desperate ROR offer sheet.

A funny thing is the best thing that happened to this organization was Feasters massive screw up. It forced us to have to rebuild, and move assets for prospects, and we sucked and got Monohan.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

A funny thing is the best thing that happened to this organization was Feasters massive screw up. It forced us to have to rebuild, and move assets for prospects, and we sucked and got Monohan.

Seriously? You're suggesting that one mistake ultimately forced the rebuild? Not years of miscalculated moves and an aging core?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Still disagree.

I think Cervenka is at least as talented as Brunner. It just didn't work out.

That happens and it isn't Feaster's fault. He thought he could be a C and maybe you can throw some criticism on that, but if Cervenka had been successful as a winger, I don't think anyone would have cared.

Nothing wrong with giving guys a chance. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, that doesn't make the GM a bad assessor of talent.

Giving guys a chance is fine. Advertising that you've signed the best centre not in the NHL and he turns out to be one of 17 small soft LWs that you've somehow accumulated, is not fine. And as someone pointed out this left us high and dry with not enough NHL centres.

If Wolf turns out to be not much good, so what, we won't be relying on him.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Giving guys a chance is fine. Advertising that you've signed the best centre not in the NHL and he turns out to be one of 17 small soft LWs that you've somehow accumulated, is not fine. And as someone pointed out this left us high and dry with not enough NHL centres.

If Wolf turns out to be not much good, so what, we won't be relying on him.

Did Feaster ever say that? Honest question. I remember media saying that