Bob Mckenzie: Flames could have had Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester

[MrMastodonFarm]

Cap space isn't irrelevant if you use it properly. If I recall correctly, post deadline Burke mentioned he had a trade on the line to bring in cap relief for another team while giving us an asset for using our cap space.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him do something similar to that this off season, maybe closer to when the season starts.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Jacks

To me there were two distinct parts to Feaster's tenure, "make the playoffs" Feaster and "rebuild" Feaster. We can argue about who's idea it was to keep trying to make the playoffs at all costs but it's clear that continuing with an aging core full of mid tier players, 2 franchise players near the end of their careers, a whole whack of NTC's, at the contract limit and cap troubles meant that he was doomed to failure to start with.

"Make the playoffs" Feaster made some good moves and some bad moves, this is of course where the majority of his mistakes happened. Mainly in his pursuit of players to play with Iginla, the quest for a #1 centre.

"Rebuild" Feaster made some good moves and some bad moves but it's hard to argue that he left the team in better shape. He got rid of a ton of bad salary, freed up contracts, brought in some good contracts and stocked the prospect cupboards. He was hardly a disaster.

A tonne of bad salary? Who?

Regehr was not bad salary. Iginla and Bouwmeester were not. What bad salary are you talking about?

The only bad salary he had on the team from what I remember was:

Kotalik - but he paid a premium to remove it, only to watch Kotalik go to Europe and come off Buffalo's books for free.

Sarich - A bit overpaid, but a contract he himself signed. Returned back O'Brien which was far worse salary.

Tanguay - Again, a contract he himself signed, and traded away for even worse salary.

There were many good points and bad points about Feaster, but removing salary was not one of them IMO.

Rest is not directed at you:

I also think Feaster's draft selection was a bit overblown. The only thing he seemed to do was trust Button (which apparently Sutter started to do himself and laid the groundwork there), and then trusted the Weisbrod/Button tandem. He was sure to remove himself from any possible blame with regards to Jankowski by insisting it was Weisbrod's choice, so I don't think you can really credit him with anything regarding the draft with the exception of allowing Button to run it (which is definitely something very positive and shouldn't be brushed aside - but also something that shouldn't be overly praised as a strength for just stepping aside either).

My biggest argument with Feaster was him sitting on his hands watching his 'competitive' team dwindle without making major moves to shake it up (coaching, big trades, trading futures for present help) or decide to enter into a rebuild. What was the expectation?

Feaster's very best move was the hiring of Hartley. That (imo) was the single biggest mistake of Darryl Sutter's GM tenure.

He made some good moves (mostly by stepping out of the way, but some solid moves on his own). He made some bad moves. All in all, it was time for a change.

[Anduril]

Doesn't matter how much time we put into Erixon. If he didn't want to be here, the fact we got more than a 2nd back is considered a win.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Cap space isn't irrelevant if you use it properly. If I recall correctly, post deadline Burke mentioned he had a trade on the line to bring in cap relief for another team while giving us an asset for using our cap space.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him do something similar to that this off season, maybe closer to when the season starts.

It was going to be Dany Heatley+ for Minny to make room for Vanek

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Cap space isn't irrelevant if you use it properly. If I recall correctly, post deadline Burke mentioned he had a trade on the line to bring in cap relief for another team while giving us an asset for using our cap space.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him do something similar to that this off season, maybe closer to when the season starts.

Feaster and Burke have both spent lip-service saying that they'll get teams to give us assets in order to dump cap on us.

...neither have them have done so, yet.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Burke inherited a decent situation but it's far from a dream situation I'd say. Cap space is pretty irrelevant at this point and while I like Monahan I see him as a piece not the franchise. Someone like O'Reilly but we still need our Mackinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, Stastny, etc. Perhaps some guys in the system could develop into that but assuming is very premature. Still a lot to prove. I see depth with our prospect base but were still missing the core IMO which is the most difficult to aquire. Not to crap on Feaster either but he traded two huge pieces to aquire two of our better prospects. (Poirier, Klimchuck) I think any GM in the league could do this when working with those kinds of assets. I personally believe Burke would have turned them into more. So while Feaster may have added some extra prospects he was really the only one in recent history who had the assets and situation to do so. I don't think this makes him a good GM. If these guys turn into quality pros then he deserves credit. Or the scouts at least.

How much do you want to inherit though? Why I think it is a dream situation is the GM basically gets to build a team from the ground up. Monahan has all the tools to be a franchise player. Will he be top 5 in the game? Probably not but he could be a player the Flames have not had in 18 years.

The Flames have an ownership group willing to spend what it takes to put a winner out there. Any GM that comes in will have the financial flexibility that someone taking over in other markets wouldn't have.

As a GM building from the ground up wouldn't you want to be the one to acquire the pieces that turn the team into a contender? Bowman has done a nice job in Chicago and win 2 cups but Tallon gets most of the credit as he drafted the core of that team.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Feaster and Burke have both spent lip-service saying that they'll get teams to give us assets in order to dump cap on us.

...neither have them have done so, yet.

To be fair to them, I don't think there has been a cap dump since they've started talking about it so it's hard to fault them if there aren't any takers.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Dagger

To be fair to them, I don't think there has been a cap dump since they've started talking about it so it's hard to fault them if there aren't any takers.

Yeah, there hasn't been a cap dump since we gave away Regehr.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, there hasn't been a cap dump since we gave away Regehr.

Don't you mean Kotalik?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Dagger

To be fair to them, I don't think there has been a cap dump since they've started talking about it so it's hard to fault them if there aren't any takers.

Because Feaster seriously over estimated how many teams would struggle to get under the cap. Two compliance buyouts and being able to retain salaries gave teams a ton of wiggle room (Toronto....)

Heatley was really the only contract I could see us being paid to take, and that ship has sailed. Pretty much everyone else will just be a compliance buy out because the rich teams can afford them easily. Maybe Havlat?

[Dajazz]

Tatar & Nyquist looks fantastic in hindsight as they are now solid contributors to a good team. What would Nyquist fetch today - 1st + roster player? Tatar - same or a bit less? So if Feaster was offered both, knowing what we know today, thats a bad call. But at the time both players were still in the minors.

My pet peeve with Feaster and Weisbrod was that they always seems to think they were a little bit smarter than the rest. It really was hit or miss, i.e. Jankowski, RoR, Cervenka, Berra, Ramo etc. Some of them turned out well, some of then didn't and some we still don't know.

Still, 1st + Cundari + Berra (now a 2nd) for a 1st pairing defenseman and an olympian. Don't know if there are any comparables out there.

Brian Campbell - 1st + Steve Bernier
Tomas Kaberle - 1st + Colborne + Conditional pick

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Tatar & Nyquist looks fantastic in hindsight as they are now solid contributors to a good team. What would Nyquist fetch today - 1st + roster player? Tatar - same or a bit less? So if Feaster was offered both, knowing what we know today, thats a bad call. But at the time both players were still in the minors.

My pet peeve with Feaster and Weisbrod was that they always seems to think they were a little bit smarter than the rest. It really was hit or miss, i.e. Jankowski, RoR, Cervenka, Berra, Ramo etc. Some of them turned out well, some of then didn't and some we still don't know.

Still, a potential top line speedy power forward (and an olympian) + Cundari + Berra (now a 2nd) for a 1st pairing defenseman and an olympian. Don't know if there are any comparables out there.

Brian Campbell - 1st + Steve Bernier
Tomas Kaberle - 1st + Colborne + Conditional pick

fyp

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Tatar & Nyquist looks fantastic in hindsight as they are now solid contributors to a good team. What would Nyquist fetch today - 1st + roster player? Tatar - same or a bit less? So if Feaster was offered both, knowing what we know today, thats a bad call. But at the time both players were still in the minors.

My pet peeve with Feaster and Weisbrod was that they always seems to think they were a little bit smarter than the rest. It really was hit or miss, i.e. Jankowski, RoR, Cervenka, Berra, Ramo etc. Some of them turned out well, some of then didn't and some we still don't know.

Still, 1st + Cundari + Berra (now a 2nd) for a 1st pairing defenseman and an olympian. Don't know if there are any comparables out there.

Brian Campbell - 1st + Steve Bernier
Tomas Kaberle - 1st + Colborne + Conditional pick

So your'e saying you want a GM who thinks he's a little stupider than the rest?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How much do you want to inherit though? Why I think it is a dream situation is the GM basically gets to build a team from the ground up. Monahan has all the tools to be a franchise player. Will he be top 5 in the game? Probably not but he could be a player the Flames have not had in 18 years.

The Flames have an ownership group willing to spend what it takes to put a winner out there. Any GM that comes in will have the financial flexibility that someone taking over in other markets wouldn't have.

As a GM building from the ground up wouldn't you want to be the one to acquire the pieces that turn the team into a contender? Bowman has done a nice job in Chicago and win 2 cups but Tallon gets most of the credit as he drafted the core of that team.

From the standpoint of having a blank slate then ya Id agree. I just think people need to remember that we are basically starting from scratch so temper your expectations.

[Stanathan]

I don't want to temper my expectations. I expect a lot and I want to be extremely excited . I don't care if I end up disappointed. I'm not going to bum myself out so that the disappointment isn't so bad if things don't go well.

[CaramonLS]

This team probably has more dead money in David Jones, Wideman and SOB than when Feaster started as GM.

[FlamesAddiction]

I still think the Bouwmeester trade was fair at the time. He was having a good rebound season, but did have a few 'meh' seasons before that which hurt his value. There was the risk that who ever took him, would not be getting full bang for their buck. Plus, the 22nd pick in a strong draft was good. I am pretty pleased with Poirier at this point.

Berra and Cundari were both decent shots in the dark as well, and Berra did end up having some trade value.

Tatar and Nyquist would have been decent parts add, but I am not 100% convinced that their stats would be the same on the Flames as they were in Detroit. Given where we are at in the rebuild, Poirier's age make good sense for us as well. Tatar and Nyquist are closer to free agent status.

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

This team probably has more dead money in David Jones, Wideman and SOB than when Feaster started as GM.

Thank you. Wideman is a soft 5-6 dman who is a PP specialist, and has been passed by Gio and Brodie in his PP ability. The team plays better when he is not in the lineup.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by gunnner

Thank you. Wideman is a soft 5-6 dman who is a PP specialist, and has been passed by Gio and Brodie in his PP ability. The team plays better when he is not in the lineup.

A healthy Wideman is fine for easier second-pairing minutes and 2nd PP time. Obviously not what you want at his price tag, but still serviceable. Do you really think the team is/was better with Breen/Billins/Cundari/SOB/Smith in the lineup?

[FaFaFlamey]

Do we blame Feaster or do we blame his scouts?