Based on the info available I'd lean more towards mental illness than away from it.
Otherwise it's a (seemingly) normal guy, with a good upbringing and a lot going for him that snapped and committed the largest mass murder in our city's history.
I agree with Rube, that the rampant speculation is pretty useless at this point, but if you were going to lean a certain way, I'd say some sort of mental illness would be the most likely case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
anyone willing to murder 5 people in cold blood has a metal health issue...they are obviously bat#### crazy
Well unlike the Greyhound case, this doesn't appear to be random, nor was he behaving in the extremely weird ways that killer was.
As I said though I'm no expert and obviously don't know much about the situation. And don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those 'we need to be tougher on crime' guys and have supported mental illness issues in other threads both for people in need and used in the justice system.
There are bad people out there though. Not everything has to be explained away as, 'it's horrific so he must be ill'.
If it comes out later that the experts and people involved in the case says he's ill then I'll trust that information. For me now however, it just doesn't feel like that. Seems different than other cases we've heard about where mental illness was a factor.
Again I repeat, I'm not an expert and have very few facts about this like all off us. I'm not sure it's fair to call it speculation though, or at least unwarrented speculation, because I'm just siding with the norm or lack of information. We have no clue or proof that he is mentally ill. The act itself, while horrific and unusual, isn't proof of illness.
Last edited by Daradon; 04-15-2014 at 08:58 PM.
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I posted earlier about feeling for the victims but I did not expect in the past hour to confirm one of them to be my friend. The worst part is, I think out of every single person I knew, and that's a lot of people, he was the only person who was permanently a ball of positivity and happiness. He definitely is someone who had no connection to the killer (and I can confirm that it would 100% not be about a girl) so it pretty much seems like he started killing aimlessly.
Terrible day for Calgary and these five people and their families.
I posted earlier about feeling for the victims but I did not expect in the past hour to confirm one of them to be my friend. The worst part is, I think out of every single person I knew, and that's a lot of people, he was the only person who was permanently a ball of positivity and happiness. He definitely is someone who had no connection to the killer (and I can confirm that it would 100% not be about a girl) so it pretty much seems like he started killing aimlessly.
Terrible day for Calgary and these five people and their families.
Sorry to hear man, I found out as well that my friend's brother is one of the victims as well. Never met him however. Interested to see what the motive, even if there is one to all of this ... guess we have to wait and see.
Why is that? I give my head a shake at todays kids because they seem to need weapons to feel tough, House party scraps have been happening since the term house has been used but stabbings at them are becoming less rare. Back in the day fights were very common but lasted 5 minutes and it was back to partying, hell, I remember people using crazy glue to stop the bleeding on cuts to knuckles
I don't even mind saying it, Kids today are wimps, they don't know what a good scrap is and when they loose they get all sucky and seek a weapon thinking they can actually win that way.
At 43 I beat the piss out of this 22 year old muscle bound punk because he jumped threw my sunroof being an idiot in a parking lot. As the cops were dragging him away his ######ed girlfriend told me I better hide because he's going to cut me up like a rare steak when he gets out.
Just stupid!
If someone jumped through my sunroof-- I'd drill away.
I've mostly read CP articles-- not a regular poster. But I have to say I've never seen Police Chief Rick Hansen this shook up.
Life is precious and you never know what's going to happen. Hug your kids as you never know what will happen.
Appreciate the way you posted what you did morgin/skudr248. It's been a bit weird calling people and telling them the news but I rather it be me because I know I can handle it. Also I'm happy I've had very few people message me to say "sorry for your loss", it's probably the one phrase in the world, said that way, that really bugs me...it's not about me, it's about the victim. I lost nothing in comparison to someone losing a life.
Well unlike the Greyhound case, this doesn't appear to be random, nor was he behaving in the extremely weird ways that killer was.
As I said though I'm no expert and obviously don't know much about the situation. And don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those 'we need to be tougher on crime' guys and have supported mental illness issues in other threads both for people in need and used in the justice system.
There are bad people out there though. Not everything has to be explained away as, 'it's horrific so he must be ill'.
If it comes out later that the experts and people involved in the case says he's ill then I'll trust that information. For me now however, it just doesn't feel like that. Seems different than other cases we've heard about where mental illness was a factor.
Again I repeat, I'm not an expert and have very few facts about this like all off us. I'm not sure it's fair to call it speculation though, or at least unwarrented speculation, because I'm just siding with the norm or lack of information. We have no clue or proof that he is mentally ill. The act itself, while horrific and unusual, isn't proof of illness.
a stable person doesn't murder 5 people in cold blood regardless of the motive you will have a very hard time convincing me otherwise
A journalist alluded to his Megadeth status and noted them "being known for their dark lyrics." Is it fair to go in that direction at all?
media was blaming Marylin Manson for the Columbine shootings since the shooters listened to his music. Manson had the classic line "the boys went bowling before the shooting, maybe bowling had something to do with it"
something along those line hence the movie:bowling for columbine
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A journalist alluded to his Megadeth status and noted them "being known for their dark lyrics." Is it fair to go in that direction at all?
It's already been discussed a lot earlier in this thread. Honestly, blaming music is borderline ######ed, imo.
I think it was puckluck that nailed it. These song lyric connections people try to make are less to do with certain bands/genres leading to violence and more to do with the fact that everyone listens to music, and when people do something major like this, they post lyrics/songs that are relevant to the situation.
The same way people post lyrics to describe their more mundane feelings and emotions all the time on facebook.
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May be a silly comparison but when my friend commited suicide I had lyrics from a 3 doors down song in my signature on CP for awhile.
The lyrics didn't make me feel terrible, the fact that my friend died, did, and the lyrics represented that.
The same way I believe in others cases, the lyrics and music doesn't make people feel like doing something, it's just relevant to their feelings at the time.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck2
Well I never said the song made him kill anyone but he deleted all his pictures and statuses and kept those songs. They obviously meant something to him and he obviously knew he was going to commit those murders.
Not sure how someone could read these lyrics and not think they were purposely left on his Facebook page.
9. Dread And The Fugitive Mind
[Dave Mustaine]
Let me introduce myself I'm a social disease
I've come for your wealth leave you on your knees
No time for feeling sorry, I got here on my own
I won't ask for mercy, I choose to walk alone
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
If you shake my hand better count your fingers
What if I do get caught? What if there is no judgment?
If I'm right I lose nothing, if you're right I lose it all
I ought to get caught because I'm doing something wicked
I'm guilty haunted by my fear and the only consequences
Are Dread and the Fugitive Mind
You built walls to protect you so no one will infect you
Pursued by those out there that vanish in thin air
Come a long way to find what you really left behind
You don't know when the end is but it's coming fast
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
If you shake my hand better count your fingers
What if I do get caught? What if there is no judgment?
If I'm right I lose nothing, if you're right I lose it all
I ought to get caught because I'm doing something wicked
I'm guilty haunted by my fear and the only consequences
Are Dread and the Fugitive
Heavy metal and violence: More than a myth?
Quote:
For anthropologist, documentary filmmaker and self-confessed "Metalhead" Sam Dunn, heavy metal is often used as a scapegoat to distract from the thoroughly more complicated societal problems surrounding such incidents.
"I think people look at heavy metal and label it for all sorts of things because we need easy answers to complex questions," Dunn says.
"I think that it's easy to target a heavy metal band for inciting violence or making kids turn to a cult than it is to actually look at real problems in the real world."
It's easy to see where the journalists, parents and religious groups get their ideas from.
Quote:
For instance in his film "A Headbanger's Journey," Dunn quotes some of his favourite lyrics by a metal band called Autopsy: "Burning from the inside out, bloody foam spews from your mouth, smell the putrid stench of flesh, as it burns you to your death."
Not the sort of poetry to be quoting to grandmother over lunch, but can such ludicrous gore really incite people to violence, not to mention murder?
As one young Norwegian metal fan told the UK's Guardian newspaper: "It's all fantasy, none of this is real, you can't take this seriously, it's just like a movie."
A journalist alluded to his Megadeth status and noted them "being known for their dark lyrics." Is it fair to go in that direction at all?
No, but you can't really count on the media to be terribly intelligent about it. There's probably a few news editors who did a fist pump when they realized they can bring evil music into the story. I'm surprised video games haven't been blamed yet, frankly.
Well I guess that's your opinion. But it's not the medical or legal standard we use.
Just for clarity (I know this specific post was aimed at Dino), in my post you responded to before, I wasn't trying to call out your opinion or anything, I was just stating my own.
He could very well have no mental issues and just kind of snapped. Just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was being an ass or anything.
Why is that? I give my head a shake at todays kids because they seem to need weapons to feel tough, House party scraps have been happening since the term house has been used but stabbings at them are becoming less rare. Back in the day fights were very common but lasted 5 minutes and it was back to partying, hell, I remember people using crazy glue to stop the bleeding on cuts to knuckles
I don't even mind saying it, Kids today are wimps, they don't know what a good scrap is and when they loose they get all sucky and seek a weapon thinking they can actually win that way.
At 43 I beat the piss out of this 22 year old muscle bound punk because he jumped threw my sunroof being an idiot in a parking lot. As the cops were dragging him away his ######ed girlfriend told me I better hide because he's going to cut me up like a rare steak when he gets out.
Just stupid!
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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No, but you can't really count on the media to be terribly intelligent about it. There's probably a few news editors who did a fist pump when they realized they can bring evil music into the story. I'm surprised video games haven't been blamed yet, frankly.
he was a bit of a loner, played GTA 5...I can see it now, pretty sure he also watched violent movies (like every other 20 year old kid on earth)
Pretty much every time a horrible act like this is committed, people say he was just a "normal guy". The take way I hope would be learned is that you don't really know someone and what they are capable of, no matter how much interaction you have with them.
That's not to say you should be suspicious of everyone and fear a horrific dark side that they may be hiding. But there seems to be a complete lack of understanding on how a seemingly well adjusted person could be so evil. It's because people can become masters of hiding their true self, and tragically that "true self" is sometimes a person that is capable of acting on their darkest thoughts.
I respectfully disagree with the take away that you suggested. For me, the take away from something like this is how a normal person, or anyone, can act this way. I've recently taken a Psychology of Evil course which addressed issues like this. Something that I learned in the course was that people don't need a reason to be violent, you just need to take away their ability to restrain themselves. And it's unfortunate that one such episode can have catastrophic consequences that affects not only the perpetrator, but the innocent victims and their families as well.
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