Canadian Restaurant Health Violations

[an hero]

That's funny, before we moved from Toronto to Calgary my wife was complaining after eating there with a coworker, not being surprised that their restaurants are fined seemingly on a regular basis for some type of code violation.

[jofillips]

I won't back down on thinking all gradings (especially putting markings on your door like its krhistalnacht) to be the first step in destroying good food.
Regulations like this are destroying the serving and more importantly the production of quality and traditional foods across the world....

[Regular_John]

From a purely aesthetic point of view I hope we never move to the "paper sign taped to the door" system. It's tacky as hell and quite frankly I think businesses should have the power to decide what does/doesn't get tacked up on the front door.

Yes, I realize there's many good reasons for putting it front & centre, but it doesn't change my view that it can take away from the overall dining experience.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by jofillips

I won't back down on thinking all gradings (especially putting markings on your door like its krhistalnacht) to be the first step in destroying good food.
Regulations like this are destroying the serving and more importantly the production of quality and traditional foods across the world....

I am with you. Those ratings do nothing to improve safety and in my opinion just encourage for off site production of food and hurt restaurants who try to do all preperation in house. I also think it doesn't improve safety because in general we don't have an epidemic of people getting food poisoning.

For example something simple like making chicken stock. If you pre buy a carton of chicken stock you put it in the fridge there is zero chance of a health code violation.

If you prepare it in the back you could have a health code violation in the following steps:
- Handling of the chicken
- cross contamination of untensils by not sanitizing between raw chicken and putting it back into the stock later
- Not cooling the stock quickly enough.
- Food is unsupervised while it is cooking (its boiling stock it doens't need to be watched)

Essentially by preparing food better you take more risk and have more opportunity for health violations. So two restaurants with equal food safety and cleanlyness practices the one that prepares less food on site will have fewer violations.

As for the risk of eating at each place we can't even evaluate it. We don't get to see on the door of the restaurant all of the violations up the chain. So if the pre-packaged food manuafacturer has a terrible record we don't get to see it while you see every mistake from the higher quality restaurant. It just doesn't provide fair comparisions.

I think the comprimise of putting them online is reasonable as it gives people who really want to know access and those who would rather not a way to avoid it. It also isn't unfairly prejiducial as people seeking out facts are generally more likely to consider the context then if the facts are just sprayed out to everyone.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

From a purely aesthetic point of view I hope we never move to the "paper sign taped to the door" system. It's tacky as hell and quite frankly I think businesses should have the power to decide what does/doesn't get tacked up on the front door.

Yes, I realize there's many good reasons for putting it front & centre, but it doesn't change my view that it can take away from the overall dining experience.

Doesn't the restaurant still make the decision as to what's posted on the front door?
Be clean and pass the inspection, Green sign. Fail and get a yellow with the chance to correct, Red and get shut down. I would like to think that all restaurants should be able to pass an inspection at all times, if not, they shouldn't be serving food to the public

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

From a purely aesthetic point of view I hope we never move to the "paper sign taped to the door" system. It's tacky as hell and quite frankly I think businesses should have the power to decide what does/doesn't get tacked up on the front door.

Yes, I realize there's many good reasons for putting it front & centre, but it doesn't change my view that it can take away from the overall dining experience.

If you let it.


I am sure restaurants have no problem posting "awards" to their front door. I would think that seeing a rating of A, or top rating would increase me dining experience, but that is just me.....

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by aaronck

Doesn't the restaurant still make the decision as to what's posted on the front door?
Be clean and pass the inspection, Green sign. Fail and get a yellow with the chance to correct, Red and get shut down. I would like to think that all restaurants should be able to pass an inspection at all times, if not, they shouldn't be serving food to the public

You seem to be arguing that the content of the document is their choice, which to some extent is true, but the posting of the document (in certain cities) is not. I am of the opinion that the posting/not posting of the document itself should be a business owners choice.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

If you let it.


I am sure restaurants have no problem posting "awards" to their front door. I would think that seeing a rating of A, or top rating would increase me dining experience, but that is just me.....

Even the posting of the "awards" is their choice though.

What I'm really getting at is this, a nice looking decor/store front with a tacky piece of paper taped up. Maybe they are allowed to frame/mount the reports, maybe they're not, either way I don't like the mandating that "X Document" must be displayed in "Y Location" on the storefront.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

You seem to be arguing that the content of the document is their choice, which to some extent is true, but the posting of the document (in certain cities) is not. I am of the opinion that the posting/not posting of the document itself should be a business owners choice.

You don't have the option to not display your business license, why should an inspection result be any different? If I was walking down 17th ave and was hungry, I would take an inspection pass into account when deciding where to eat.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Even the posting of the "awards" is their choice though.

What I'm really getting at is this, a nice looking decor/store front with a tacky piece of paper taped up. Maybe they are allowed to frame/mount the reports, maybe they're not, either way I don't like the mandating that "X Document" must be displayed in "Y Location" on the storefront.

I just can't see how this would do anything other than increase your dining pleasure knowing the kitchen is cleaning and health standards are met.

Honestly, other than seeing it when you walk in and maybe look out the window.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by jofillips

I won't back down on thinking all gradings (especially putting markings on your door like its krhistalnacht) to be the first step in destroying good food.
Regulations like this are destroying the serving and more importantly the production of quality and traditional foods across the world....

It always amazes me when someone makes a parallel between good reasonable government (which we can debate the merits of) and one of the worsts periods in our history. It makes you look like an uneducated fool.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by aaronck

You don't have the option to not display your business license, why should an inspection result be any different? If I was walking down 17th ave and was hungry, I would take an inspection pass into account when deciding where to eat.

But is the business license on the front door? Or typically by the till?

Honestly, I have no problem with the public disclosure of health inspections, what I take issue with is the location of them.

The storefront of any business/restaurant is prime branding/signage location, and I don't like the idea of a government/inspection agency taking a slice of it away.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

But is the business license on the front door? Or typically by the till?

Honestly, I have no problem with the public disclosure of health inspections, what I take issue with is the location of them.

The storefront of any business/restaurant is prime branding/signage location, and I don't like the idea of a government/inspection agency taking a slice of it away.

At most it might be a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper (I doubt it would be that big). If that is making or breaking your advertising as a business, you might have issues, IMO.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

At most it might be a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper (I doubt it would be that big). If that is making or breaking your advertising as a business, you might have issues, IMO.

Obviously it's not going to make or break a business, but it's going to add to the visual clutter of the landscape.

Yes, I'm being a little sensitive/unreasonably in my view here. But it's akin to the Quebec signage laws, I just don't think government agencies should have a hand in store front signage/displays.

Let the business owners make the call.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Obviously it's not going to make or break a business, but it's going to add to the visual clutter of the landscape.

Yes, I'm being a little sensitive/unreasonably in my view here. But it's akin to the Quebec signage laws, I just don't think government agencies should have a hand in store front signage/displays.

Let the business owners make the call.

I disagree.

One is an attempt to increase public safety and the adherence to health rules/laws.

The other........well........I think deep down you really don't think they are truely similiar.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I disagree.

One is an attempt to increase public safety and the adherence to health rules/laws.

The other........well........I think deep down you really don't think they are truely similiar.

I assure you I do. I've said my piece, I don't like store fronts being dictated by government agencies. Be it in the interest of public safety or silly bureaucratic policies.

But I seem to be alone in this opinion, which is fine.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

I assure you I do. I've said my piece, I don't like store fronts being dictated by government agencies. Be it in the interest of public safety or silly bureaucratic policies.

But I seem to be alone in this opinion, which is fine.

Cool, we disagree, I have no problem with that.

[btimbit]

I'd like to see something like that. Maybe not a grade right in the front window like that, that seems tacky as hell. Maybe make it mandatory for the whole report to be posted next to the front entrance. Next to the capacity limits that the city already makes you have to have their.

Not only does this make the restaurants more accountable, but more importantly it makes AHS get their act together as well.

[calgarywinning]

The grade should go in the washroom, right above the TP so everyone see's it, after it's too late or when they are pondering whether or not to wash their hands.

[jofillips]

this isnt reasonable government naga and please develop a sense of humour....
i may be an uneducated fool to you but i care deeply about food traditions, where our food comes from and always will do, whether you agree or not...