Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by fotze

They should have us all line up and those who choose to get vaccinated get it and the others go into a meat grinder to be ground up into some tasty 'known substance' sausages to eat. The taste of someone who has not had unknown substances injected into them would be off the charts.

Soylent Green is people!!

[activeStick]

There was a big measles outbreak last week in the Lower Mainland.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/b-c-me...dren-1.2585457

[WhiteTiger]

Here's a good article that breaks it down into some pretty simple and basic concepts most folks should be able to grasp.

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skept...e-ingredients/

There's a bit near the end that really made me chuckle:

"This illogical removal of thiomersal from vaccines makes it nearly impossible to have multi-use vials, so every vaccine has to be in a single-use prefilled syringe, which has rapidly driven up the costs of vaccines. Wait. That’s more evidence that antivaccination lunatics are in the pockets of Big Pharma. They pushed to get rid of thiomersal to make more profits for Big Pharma. That was an awesome move on their part."

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by strombad

I didn't even know there were real, generally logical people who would consider not vaccinating their children. I assumed most of the anti-vaccine crowd were low IQ stay at home parents that watched too much daytime TV.

I mean, even the guy who first proposed the theory was barred from practicing medicine. You'd literally have to ignore science and large chunks of logic to believe vaccines were more dangerous than not having vaccines.

People are crazy.

This attitude does a lot more harm than good, essentially calling people idiots doesn't engage in good conversation and a transfer of knowledge, it just results in people getting defensive. Actually rarely pay attention to posters and who they are but you tend to talk down to people a lot and when talking about sports, it isn't a big deal but when it comes to more important issues, it just makes you look like a bit of a sardonic jerk truthfully. Honestly, people have reasons to be concerned about vaccinations, mostly because it is something that people don't know anything about for the most part. Instead of demeaning someone, why not put forth constructive information, rather than calling them stupid people.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Honestly, people have reasons to be concerned about vaccinations

What would those reasons be?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by evman150

What would those reasons be?

They have reason to be concerned in that they don't have education about vaccinations and the risks associated with them (thinking anaphylaxis , not autism or anything like that). If you didn't know about something that you were injecting that something into your body there would be reason for concern.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

They have reason to be concerned in that they don't have education about vaccinations and the risks associated with them (thinking anaphylaxis , not autism or anything like that). If you didn't know about something that you were injecting that something into your body there would be reason for concern.

People do much more harm by "finding out for themselves" than by not knowing the risks.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by evman150

People do much more harm by "finding out for themselves" than by not knowing the risks.

Depending on the source of the information they use to educate themselves. If they seek help from a medical professional, that is one thing. I can't imagine you're suggesting ignorance is favourable to educated decision making here.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by evman150

People do much more harm by "finding out for themselves" than by not knowing the risks.

Who are you quoting? Honestly, I am a huge proponant of vaccines, but I am also acknowledging that there is a lot of misinformation out there and to characterize someone as having a low IQ isn't an effective way to actually spread reliable evidence based information, in fact it does the opposite.

Talking to people is a lot more effective than talking down to people.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

This attitude does a lot more harm than good, essentially calling people idiots doesn't engage in good conversation and a transfer of knowledge, it just results in people getting defensive. Actually rarely pay attention to posters and who they are but you tend to talk down to people a lot and when talking about sports, it isn't a big deal but when it comes to more important issues, it just makes you look like a bit of a sardonic jerk truthfully. Honestly, people have reasons to be concerned about vaccinations, mostly because it is something that people don't know anything about for the most part. Instead of demeaning someone, why not put forth constructive information, rather than calling them stupid people.

I've yet to see you post anything above casual assertions and suppositions, so perhaps you could lead by example instead of singling out posters who you hypocritically feel don't contribute to the conversation.

Name calling isn't proving any points. I was open and honest concerning what I thought the situation was. The posters I referenced I clearly said were "logical people" and that I was surprised that the anti-vaccination movement had moved past the under educated and into circles that included people with respectable points of view.

Perhaps you'd be better off working towards developing an understanding of different perceptions instead of calling particular posters names and offering nothing of substance.

I fully admitted my own ignorance, and you're being just as much of a jerk by pigeon holing points of view that you were too conceded to intellectually engage with. Don't call me the jerk because I was willing to admit my own lack of knowledge regarding the spread of the anti-vac movement.

I might suggest you go back to paying less attention to particular posters, since you couldn't even manage to avoid being condescending regarding a point you fully misinterpreted.

[Codes]

I think the Public Health Agency of Canada needs to actively promote vaccination in a very public way (TV commercials, radio ads, YouTube ads) in order to reach the masses. Google should automatically load an ad when someone surfs to an anti-vaccine site or watches an anti-vaccine video. That might be over-bearing, but people need to know that there is a lot of misinformation that is aggressively promoted.

The biggest problem is teaching people what is reputable source of information versus junk science. It may seem obvious to some, but not to everyone.

I think this, and other societal issues/trends reflect the need to modify what is learned in the public education system from a young age in order to improve public health for future generations.

[Nage Waza]

I think adults that willingly decide to begin smoking are not very smart. People that decide not to vaccinate themselves or their children are even worse.

I can't believe anti vaxer movement has gained any traction. Once vaccination becomes mandatory in order to receive health care (for adults) and child abuse for not allowing children to be vaccinated (yes, my hopeful prediction), we will look back upon those statistical disease 'blips' with shame.

[Rick Wamsley]

I agree people are so stupid for not trusting the government and private corporations. I mean we vote these politicians in and they should force us to do what ever the lobbyists for private corporations want. I mean when has a person in power ever abused that power? And the goal of all private corporations are to worry about the general public and not profits. Right?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Rick Wamsley

I agree people are so stupid for not trusting the government and private corporations. I mean we vote these politicians in and they should force us to do what ever the lobbyists for private corporations want. I mean when has a person in power ever abused that power? And the goal of all private corporations are to worry about the general public and not profits. Right?

There is a huge difference between questioning the science and the facts about vaccines and their benefits and dangers vs. outright refusal to vaccinate a child against all professional judgement.

Why is it that the anti-vaxers and their supporters always rely on this "Well you just can't blindly trust the government and science you know!" as though that's what the belief in vaccinations hinges on.

The only ones blatantly ignoring things are people who refuse vaccinations. You can, in fact, educate yourself on vaccines and their benefits before vaccinating your child.

Incredible right?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Rick Wamsley

I agree people are so stupid for not trusting the government and private corporations. I mean we vote these politicians in and they should force us to do what ever the lobbyists for private corporations want. I mean when has a person in power ever abused that power? And the goal of all private corporations are to worry about the general public and not profits. Right?

I fail to see what this has to do with independently, peer reviewed analysis.

[Rick Wamsley]

How about independent doctors that prescribe medicine that they make the most profit or kick backs from? Wait that doesn't happen, my bad.

It's a good thing these drug companies just break even on vaccinations, imagine if they made billions of dollars on them! Things might get out of control like hyping mass vaccinations for everyone! These drug companies work for the common good of society, I say we should make it mandatory for them to inject us with whatever they say we need. Whoever questions these private companies need to be jailed for being stupid.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Codes

I think the Public Health Agency of Canada needs to actively promote vaccination in a very public way (TV commercials, radio ads, YouTube ads) in order to reach the masses. Google should automatically load an ad when someone surfs to an anti-vaccine site or watches an anti-vaccine video. That might be over-bearing, but people need to know that there is a lot of misinformation that is aggressively promoted.

The biggest problem is teaching people what is reputable source of information versus junk science. It may seem obvious to some, but not to everyone.

I think this, and other societal issues/trends reflect the need to modify what is learned in the public education system from a young age in order to improve public health for future generations.

They would love to do all you say, but then no one in Health Promotion at PHAC would be able to cut themselves a salary. Public Health, and especially Health Promotion has a very small piece of the pie in healthcare spending in this country.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Rick Wamsley

How about independent doctors that prescribe medicine that they make the most profit or kick backs from? Wait that doesn't happen, my bad.



It's a good thing these drug companies just break even on vaccinations, imagine if they made billions of dollars on them! Things might get out of control like hyping mass vaccinations for everyone! These drug companies work for the common good of society, I say we should make it mandatory for them to inject us with whatever they say we need. Whoever questions these private companies need to be jailed for being stupid.

The whole ironic sarcasm thing you've got going is the proudest display of ignorance I've seen recently.

Has anyone once said that questioning private companies, the government, or science is a bad thing? I haven't seen it yet, so you're just making up an argument so that you can argue it.

I'm curious as to what your game is. Every single post you've made (all 5 or 6 of then) on CP has been purposely trollish.

Returning poster? Or just a lonely teenager?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Rick Wamsley

How about independent doctors that prescribe medicine that they make the most profit or kick backs from? Wait that doesn't happen, my bad.

It's a good thing these drug companies just break even on vaccinations, imagine if they made billions of dollars on them! Things might get out of control like hyping mass vaccinations for everyone! These drug companies work for the common good of society, I say we should make it mandatory for them to inject us with whatever they say we need. Whoever questions these private companies need to be jailed for being stupid.

A doctor receives no kickbacks for prescribing. In fact they make the same money whether they even write a prescription or not.


All yourself this. What if these companies made money because they developed something that works? Why can't that be true?
Oh my god! People make money developing things to keep people from being sick?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Rick Wamsley

How about independent doctors that prescribe medicine that they make the most profit or kick backs from? Wait that doesn't happen, my bad.

It's a good thing these drug companies just break even on vaccinations, imagine if they made billions of dollars on them! Things might get out of control like hyping mass vaccinations for everyone! These drug companies work for the common good of society, I say we should make it mandatory for them to inject us with whatever they say we need. Whoever questions these private companies need to be jailed for being stupid.

Fair enough. Since it is all based on profit, why don't you opt out of using a hospital when you are sick? In fact, much of what the hospital does is based in the same foundation as vaccinations - science.

I only work for profit, except for odd volunteer work. I must be doing a bad job and out to get people.