Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

This is insane. Can we all agree that getting good nutrition and a the proper levels of vitamin D, C, B, Z, whatever vitamin is necessary for human existence, AND also getting a preventive vaccination which stops a serious infection before it causes irreparable damage and possibly death is the best possible prevention of serious illness? This is the thing that bothers me. It's not an "either/or" scenario…it's a "do everything possible to be as healthy as possible" scenario. To me, if someone just gets a vaccination and ignores everything else it takes to be a healthy person such as proper diet, exercise, mental health etc., it's maddening and irresponsible for that individual to ignore other things vital for a healthy life. It's the same thing as doing all the "natural" things to take care of your health but ignoring the fact that a simple vaccine can prevent a serious measles outbreak among not only you and your own family, but perfectly innocent strangers that are immunocompromised. I want to punch both groups in the head for being so simplistic about a very complicated problem.

The issue here is with the assertion that you DON'T have to vaccinate of you hey vitamin D. No one disagrees that a healthy lifestyle is ideal.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

The issue here is with the assertion that you DON'T have to vaccinate of you hey vitamin D. No one disagrees that a healthy lifestyle is ideal.

No, and I'm not saying that's the case, but sometimes it does seem like the importance of a healthy lifestyle is downplayed in the importance of overcoming disease and preventing serious infection.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Do we blame them, or the government that allows this to occur?

Well my thoughts on vaccine are pretty well known but I'm not convinced governments should force people to do anything. I might be able to get behind requiring children getting vaccinated, but if an adult chooses not to get vaccinated, it's their own stupid fault.

If we are going to start forcing people to do things to prevent them from their own stupidity, I don't think vaccines are the first place I'd start.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Well my thoughts on vaccine are pretty well known but I'm not convinced governments should force people to do anything. I might be able to get behind requiring children getting vaccinated, but if an adult chooses not to get vaccinated, it's their own stupid fault.

If we are going to start forcing people to do things to prevent them from their own stupidity, I don't think vaccines are the first place I'd start.

Drunk driving?

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Well my thoughts on vaccine are pretty well known but I'm not convinced governments should force people to do anything. I might be able to get behind requiring children getting vaccinated, but if an adult chooses not to get vaccinated, it's their own stupid fault.

If we are going to start forcing people to do things to prevent them from their own stupidity, I don't think vaccines are the first place I'd start.

The problem lies with children. People who don't properly vaccinate without just cause are child abusers. The government should absolutely be involved with protecting the lives of the VAST majority of children.

Make vaccinations mandatory unless a professional doctor recommends otherwise. Simple.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I am not anti vaccine just came in here to be a devils advocate but its obvious you guys just started this so you could be smug and smell your own farts so I will leave you to it.

the effectiveness of the flu shot is debatable and many doctors think vitamin D is at the very least as effective as the flu shot with ZERO side effects. I have never gotten the flu shot in my life and have had the flu maybe one or two times in my life...I know people who get it yearly (the flu and the flu shot) maybe I am just lucky

Here is a study by a doctor...just to get your blood boiling, vitamin D FTW!

http://preventdisease.com/news/13/10...ting-Flu.shtml

If you think that this thread is about the pro-vaccine people tooting their horns and smelling their farts, then you don't understand what being a devils advocate is.

Devils Advocate is to argue the opposite side of an issue. In order to do that you have to present a credible argument.

I can't say "You shouldn't vote for Barak Obama because he's an alien from Neptune sent from the future to kill John Connor." Yes it's an argument to not vote for Obama, but it isn't a valid one. Just like you can't say "Flu vaccines aren't effective" and misquote studies and cite unreliable sources.

I didn't point out that the NVIC article was full of holes because I like how my farts smell (I do like how my farts smell, but that's neither here not there). I did it because the article cited studies as fact when the studies stated found the results inconclusive.

That's dangerous, and the author of the article is either unethical or stupid. Either way, their argument is invalid as it isn't based in fact.


When assessing medical studies, they should be done by doctors and be peer reviewed. Joe Blow conducting a study in his backyard isn't necessarily accurate science. Therefore we shouldn't treat it as such.


Also, when arguing devils advocate, people will argue back. The devils advocate doesn't get to present one side of the story at the end. The devils advocate position can be countered. In this case it was as there were major holes in your argument. Pointing them out doesn't mean I am not listening to what you have to say. In fact it means I am listening, paying attention and considering your argument. Just because the argument is wrong (not to be confused with your conclusion necessarily being wrong) doesn't mean I'm only here to dismiss it out of hand.


I'll be the first to admit I'm no scientist. What I can do is read and think critically.


You'll note I haven't touched the vitamin D issue with regard to the flu. There's a reason for that… I'm still considering it.

I will continue to consider it for a while yet but in the meantime Dutch Oven baby!

[Rick Wamsley]

Why do pro vaccination people need to worry about people who are not vaccinated? Doesn't your paranoia end once the needle of unknown substances enter your system? If you and your family are vaccinated its all good right? Why force other people to be as "smart" as you? Ive had all my vaccinations, i don't give an F what my neighbour has because Im protected. When the government said put this in your arm its good for you I said "can i take two!"

[burn_this_city]

They aren't 100% effective. Herd immunity is what makes them more effective than they are on an individual basis.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by fotze

This is true. We should be wanting ######ed people to die. I think I am going to change my views on vaccinations.

I'd be all for these people and their kids to die slow, horrible deaths as long as they wouldn't be a burden on the healthcare system while they die. Better not spend tax dollars on their care.

And for the sake of clarity, that's sarcasm.

GD I can't believe some of the posts in this thread.

[burn_this_city]

Everytime this thread gets bumped I get a bit excited hoping that an anti-vaxer has posted.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by fotze

They should have us all line up and those who choose to get vaccinated get it and the others go into a meat grinder to be ground up into some tasty 'known substance' sausages to eat. The taste of someone who has not had unknown substances injected into them would be off the charts.

You could sell them at wholefoods.

"Organic, grain fed. No Hormones or Vaccinations."

[Maritime Q-Scout]

If you don't get vaccinated, get sick and pass that along to a child that hasn't reached the age for that particular vaccination, then I have a MAJOR problem with that.

If you don't vaccinate your kids and they get sick, I'm my opinion that's child abuse. To me not vaccinating your kids because you have an unwarranted irrational fear of vaccines is like not feeding your kids because you have an unwarranted irrational fear of something in our food.

If you don't vaccinate and big down our healthcare system because you need additional resources because of a horrible disease that could have been prevented and you take away resources from other areas (be it ER, cancer centres, palitive care beds etc) then I have a problem with that.


Not vaccinating yourself affects more than just you.

[Flamesoholic]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I would post my thoughts and sources but this is a kangaroo court. What is the point discussing something where the verdict has been decided already? Vaccines are good to all of you and if I don't want kids vaccinated I'm a heretic, I get it.

You're not a heretic but you are dangerous. Very dangerous to your own children and to mine and to everyone else's that has any proximity to you.
You have the right to have your own opinion but in all honesty your children and all other children around you have a greater right to health and life than you have to make wrong decisions.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I keep reading about people talking about side effects without anyone actually posting what those side effects are.

From the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Some if those vaccines may have some serious side effects although seemingly all severe side effects are so infrequent that there is no direct correlation between the vaccine and the severe side effect. It appears the CDC is listing them just because it's an anomaly that they don't have a big enough same size to prove or disprove.

[WhiteTiger]

The main problem I have with anti-vaxxers is that they really truely believe the stuff coming out of their mouths. So not only are they endangering people without vaccinating, they are poisoning their kids minds as well (and it's usually a double bonus as it's folks paranoid about "the ebil gubberment putting things in them!"). While I am worried about deteriorating herd immunity, I am also as much worried the passing on of these anti-vaxx idiocies. With a bit of luck, their kids will grow up and be able to use their common sense.

[WhiteTiger]

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Well my thoughts on vaccine are pretty well known but I'm not convinced governments should force people to do anything. I might be able to get behind requiring children getting vaccinated, but if an adult chooses not to get vaccinated, it's their own stupid fault.

If we are going to start forcing people to do things to prevent them from their own stupidity, I don't think vaccines are the first place I'd start.

Considering we have socialized health care that we all pay for, I am all for taxation and penalties for those that cause increased stress on our health care system. If you smoke, pay for it. Don't get vax'd? Pay for it. The reason the government cares is because vaccinating all of use prevents outbreak of certain types of very dangerous disease, where money is used for treatment. Anti vaxers put other people at risk. Vaccinations and immunizations help your body defend itself, mandatory vaccinations and immunizations help defend large groups of people. Let's not be stupid here.

Over 100,000 people die annually from measles, how many die due to drunk drivers? Why do we have rules regarding drinking and driving and not vaccinations?

[rubecube]

Another daily dose of anti-vaxxer stupidity.

http://politicalblindspot.com/data-r...nation-trends/

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Flamesoholic

You're not a heretic but you are dangerous. Very dangerous to your own children and to mine and to everyone else's that has any proximity to you.
You have the right to have your own opinion but in all honesty your children and all other children around you have a greater right to health and life than you have to make wrong decisions.

you don't even know what my stance on it is, how can make you such claims? The level of narcissism in here is disgusting, pathetic to be honest.

You don't know whether I would vaccinate my children or not, all I had was concerns. That does not make me dangerous, that actually makes things exponentially more safe because that's what any logical person would want; a society of people that strive towards safe healthcare and not mandatory healthcare that is not thought through logically. Whether or not I will get vaccinations in the future you don't even know but make such irreverent condescending comments. Even if you guys are 100% correct shame on you for being so self-righteous, it's an unhealthy state of mind.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Here's my question, and I'd like to know if the vaccine proponents can answer it without insulting me; is it true that the preservatives in the vaccines are cumulative within the body and it is the successive injections that cause problems and not each individual injection? I've heard the argument from atleast a moderately reputable source and want to know if you guys that support vaccines understand and agree/disagree with the idea of cumulative effects. (I'm in the I don't know the answer yet and have an open mind to discussion about it group)

Originally Posted by AcGold

yeah I'll find a link

Originally Posted by AcGold

you don't even know what my stance on it is, how can make you such claims? The level of narcissism in here is disgusting, pathetic to be honest.

You don't know whether I would vaccinate my children or not, all I had was concerns. That does not make me dangerous, that actually makes things exponentially more safe because that's what any logical person would want; a society of people that strive towards safe healthcare and not mandatory healthcare that is not thought through logically. Whether or not I will get vaccinations in the future you don't even know but make such irreverent condescending comments. Even if you guys are 100% correct shame on you for being so self-righteous, it's an unhealthy state of mind.

What is your play in all this?

Is said "I've heard the argument from atleast a moderately reputable source"

I asked to see the source................