Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Flu shots are a different animal.

The medical community doesn't claim that the flush or will prevent any and all flu strains.

The flu shot is the medical community's best long term guess (they need time to prepare so they don't have all variables) at what strain of the flu will be rampant in a given year.

I'd be curious to see their effectiveness over a larger sample size than one year.

Also by giving the 9% effective rate (I would like to see a source on that) they are being transparent. Just like the effective rate of the vaccines being discussed in this thread (TB, whooping cough, etc).

oh you didn't hear about that 9% effectiveness this year? Thats kinda my point...quick 10 second story about it on global news, similar situation when the province ran out of the vaccine. Months earlier it was day after day of nagging people to get the thing and the usual fear mongering

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by dino7c

oh you didn't hear about that 9% effectiveness this year? Thats kinda my point...quick 10 second story about it on global news, similar situation when the province ran out of the vaccine. Months earlier it was day after day of nagging people to get the thing and the usual fear mongering

Nope and a quick google search confirms the above stated 61%. Where are you getting 9%?

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

oh you didn't hear about that 9% effectiveness this year? Thats kinda my point...quick 10 second story about it on global news, similar situation when the province ran out of the vaccine. Months earlier it was day after day of nagging people to get the thing and the usual fear mongering

Yes, the vaccine was only 9% effective against the H3N2 strain for seniors aged 64 and up. For the other vulnerable group (children aged 6 months to 17) it was 58% effective. And, as I said, it was 61% effective overall. Yup, what a total waste of time.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I don't know what the "worst strain" is that he's referring to, but the CDC claims the most recent vaccine was 61% effective overall.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6307a1.htm

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1270043

Vitamin D is just as effective...yet they can't make billions of dollars from that so

research also shows that getting flu shots yearly can actually INCREASE the risk

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-New...red-flags.aspx

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I would post my thoughts and sources but this is a kangaroo court. What is the point discussing something where the verdict has been decided already? Vaccines are good to all of you and if I don't want kids vaccinated I'm a heretic, I get it.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Do you mind me asking who you reputable souce was?

Originally Posted by AcGold

yeah I'll find a link

Did I miss where you posted some articles? You came in here before and spouted off. I asked you to post you articles, you did (if I missed them I am sorry).

Now you came back and do the same and wonder why people have no time for you or your opinions?

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1270043

Vitamin D is just as effective...yet they can't make billions of dollars from that so

research also shows that getting flu shots yearly can actually INCREASE the risk

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-New...red-flags.aspx

What's the purpose of the first article you posted? I hope it isn't to support your claim about Vitamin D because it makes no mention of it. And supplements are a huge industry so whomever "they" is can definitely make billions from it if they wanted to.

NVIC. LOL.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

Yes, the vaccine was only 9% effective against the H3N2 strain for seniors aged 64 and up. For the other vulnerable group (children aged 6 months to 17) it was 58% effective. And, as I said, it was 61% effective overall. Yup, what a total waste of time.

you know this for a fact? or did a government funded organization tell you these numbers.

I didn't get the flu shot this year yet I drink orange juice everyday and never got the FLU. So I guess OJ is 100% effective in my case.

61% of people who got the flu shot didnt get the flu sure...that doesn't mean they would have had they not had the flu shot

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

What's the purpose of the first article you posted? I hope it isn't to support your claim about Vitamin D because it makes no mention of it. And supplements are a huge industry so whomever "they" is can definitely make billions from it if they wanted to.

NVIC. LOL.

do you deny my claim about vitamin D? because its a fact that vitamin D boosts the immune system. And you don't need supplements to boost your vitamin D intake

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by dino7c

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1270043

Vitamin D is just as effective...yet they can't make billions of dollars from that so

research also shows that getting flu shots yearly can actually INCREASE the risk

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-New...red-flags.aspx

If you read the article (the last one about effectiveness) there are a few things to note:

1) it's not written by a doctor

2) it comes from an anti-vaccine organization, one that was started to increase awareness that vaccines cause autism (it's proven they do not)

3) if you click on the links to the studies cited to support the arguments presented you will see that the conclusions of the cited works are inconclusive and state more research is required as there were biases that need to be accounted for


Research will show anything. You need to meet the scientific standards for it to be admissible in an argument. That was a mistake of the author (likely finding random studies that do not meet the scientific method of proof) which is being passed off as fact, when it is not.

[strombad]

I didn't even know there were real, generally logical people who would consider not vaccinating their children. I assumed most of the anti-vaccine crowd were low IQ stay at home parents that watched too much daytime TV.

I mean, even the guy who first proposed the theory was barred from practicing medicine. You'd literally have to ignore science and large chunks of logic to believe vaccines were more dangerous than not having vaccines.

People are crazy.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

you know this for a fact? or did a government funded organization tell you these numbers.

I didn't get the flu shot this year yet I drink orange juice everyday and never got the FLU. So I guess OJ is 100% effective in my case.

61% of people who got the flu shot didnt get the flu sure...that doesn't mean they would have had they not had the flu shot

61% effectiveness does not mean that 61% of the people who got the shot didn't get the flu. It means overall 61% more people who were vaccinated didn't get the flu than those who didn't get the shot. Yay science!

Originally Posted by dino7c

do you deny my claim about vitamin D? because its a fact that vitamin D boosts the immune system. And you don't need supplements to boost your vitamin D intake

I don't deny your claim, but I won't support it either until I see some facts, which you haven't provided.

And you're right, you can get all the vitamin D you need from the sun (time and weather permitting) but that doesn't stop people from buying supplements like crazy.

[Philly06Cup]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think very little of people that don't vaccinate their children. That is about the nicest way I could say it.

Do we blame them, or the government that allows this to occur?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by strombad

I didn't even know there were real, generally logical people who would consider not vaccinating their children. I assumed most of the anti-vaccine crowd were low IQ stay at home parents that watched too much daytime TV.

I mean, even the guy who first proposed the theory was barred from practicing medicine. You'd literally have to ignore science and large chunks of logic to believe vaccines were more dangerous than not having vaccines.

People are crazy.

My cousin & his wife researched vaccinations when they were expecting their child. Both my cousin & his wife are very intelligent (far more than me).

Given the media attention anti-vaccination has received they wanted to know more about it.

They were shocked that they couldn't find any credible evidence to support not vaccinating. They expected at least an outlier but nothing. Needless to say, their daughter is being vaccinated.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Do we blame them, or the government that allows this to occur?

You mean by lack of government sponsored sterilization?

[dino7c]

I am not anti vaccine just came in here to be a devils advocate but its obvious you guys just started this so you could be smug and smell your own farts so I will leave you to it.

the effectiveness of the flu shot is debatable and many doctors think vitamin D is at the very least as effective as the flu shot with ZERO side effects. I have never gotten the flu shot in my life and have had the flu maybe one or two times in my life...I know people who get it yearly (the flu and the flu shot) maybe I am just lucky

Here is a study by a doctor...just to get your blood boiling, vitamin D FTW!

http://preventdisease.com/news/13/10...ting-Flu.shtml

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by dino7c

you know this for a fact? or did a government funded organization tell you these numbers.

The article you linked basically said the exact same thing?

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by dino7c

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1270043

Vitamin D is just as effective...yet they can't make billions of dollars from that so

research also shows that getting flu shots yearly can actually INCREASE the risk

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-New...red-flags.aspx

Actually, no, Vitamin D isn't.

Vitamin D Panned in Review of Studies

Now a review and analysis pooling findings from 40 trials on the effect of vitamin D supplements concludes the pills likely provide few, if any, health benefits.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

Actually, no, Vitamin D isn't.

Vitamin D Panned in Review of Studies

we could do this all day, you finding one article proves nothing

I never said it could cure cancer, I believe it boosts the immune system as does a healthy lifestyle and diet (my doctor also agrees)

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I never said it could cure cancer, I believe it boosts the immune system as does a healthy lifestyle and diet (my doctor also agrees)

No one is debating that. I don't know why you insist on this vitamin D tangent anyway. You do realize that if something is more effective than something else it doesn't negate the effectiveness of the something else, right? So even if vitamin D does do a better job combating the flu that that isn't proof that the flu shot doesn't work.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

This is insane. Can we all agree that getting good nutrition and a the proper levels of vitamin D, C, B, Z, whatever vitamin is necessary for human existence, AND also getting a preventive vaccination which stops a serious infection before it causes irreparable damage and possibly death is the best possible prevention of serious illness? This is the thing that bothers me. It's not an "either/or" scenario…it's a "do everything possible to be as healthy as possible" scenario. To me, if someone just gets a vaccination and ignores everything else it takes to be a healthy person such as proper diet, exercise, mental health etc., it's maddening and irresponsible for that individual to ignore other things vital for a healthy life. It's the same thing as doing all the "natural" things to take care of your health but ignoring the fact that a simple vaccine can prevent a serious measles outbreak among not only you and your own family, but perfectly innocent strangers that are immunocompromised. I want to punch both groups in the head for being so simplistic about a very complicated problem.