What is Sven's value right now ?

[DazzlinDino]

Backlunds been there and has had lots of ups and downs a long the way trying to find his game and figure out what kind of player he needs to be. I think Backlund now understands what Hartley is looking for and now brings something to the table if he is not scoring etc. Backlund is a prime example of what likely Hartley wants from Sven that Backlund himself didn't have before. It's to play with an edge and and a purpose every shift.

I think Sven needs a guy like Backlund to help him along, mentor him and help him understand the kind of player he can work towards. The question isn't talent, Hartley said Sven needs to bring more so the issue isn't so much talent. It's the other things he, "Hartley" wants that makes him a more complete player. I think Hartley is looking for that edge to Svens game and he isn't quite there yet. I am glad the Flames had the patience with Backlund which most of us probably admit took longer than expected. I think the Flames are working with Svens development. He may not be ready yet but Sven has to take the next step and show he has that gear that takes him to the next level.

[Stupid]

Originally Posted by Malkin

Probably a 6th round pick. He is producing much even in the AHL.

He is? Then why is he only worth a 6th round pick?!

[dammage79]

Sven is on a 5 game point streak IIRC. So he is coming around again. Now he needs to start doing this consistently. Still have high hopes for him.

[Psytic]

I think he has an up hill battle to get back. I think Granlund has jumped him in the depth chart at this point and probably deserves a call up more.

[Beatle17]

[QUOTE=New Era;4609178]Sven is still a good prospect and has a lot of potential. He is not doing anything to make other teams lineup and ask for him in a deal, but if dangled he would still be a valuable commodity. He is likely viewed as a prospect that needs a change of scenery and a fresh start elsewhere. I would think he would be a guy that is included in a deal with one of the veterans to get a real good prospect on the verge of playing full time in the NHL, like a Larsson or Toffoli.

What exactly does Toffoli bring that is so outstanding? His points and games played (with a better supporting cast) are the same as Sven. He is also 6 months older. Every time I see stuff like this I wonder if its not people (not saying you - just your comment was the first I saw in this thread) assuming someone else's "toy" is better. From what I have watched Toffoli's upside isn't as high as Sven's. He has scored a few more goals but nothing spectacular and his skating is definitely a step below. If he has such high upside and ability then why is LA always looking for a scoring winger heading into the playoffs?

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I don't know if Toffoli is better than Sven.

He's just good, and playing for a team that might be winning to move a future piece to win while their window is open.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

What exactly does Toffoli bring that is so outstanding? His points and games played (with a better supporting cast) are the same as Sven. He is also 6 months older. Every time I see stuff like this I wonder if its not people (not saying you - just your comment was the first I saw in this thread) assuming someone else's "toy" is better. From what I have watched Toffoli's upside isn't as high as Sven's. He has scored a few more goals but nothing spectacular and his skating is definitely a step below. If he has such high upside and ability then why is LA always looking for a scoring winger heading into the playoffs?

This is definitely not a case of falling in love with someone else's toy. Toffoli is a right shooting RW with great finishing ability. That is a commodity completely missing in our system. In fact, there aren't that many of them out there, so to get one you have to give to get. Toffoli brings more size and physicality to the game, which is exactly what Burke said he is looking for in players going forward.

In a direct comparison between the two young forwards you could try and argue that their numbers are similar. Baertschi's 8 goals and 24 points are across parts of three seasons. Toffoli's 12 goals and 24 points are across parts of two seasons, with the majority of his goals and points coming this year. Toffoli did it for a team where it would be very tough to break in, and Baertschi did it where the talent level was very thin. If anything, I think Baertschi had an advantage. Where the comparison really goes off the rails is when you compare their minor league numbers. Baertschi has 13 goals and 35 points in 53 AHL games. Toffoli has scored 39 goals and 69 points in 74 AHL games. Toffoli is also a plus player while Baertschi is a minus player playing on similar strength AHL teams.

I think both Baertschi and Toffoli are good prospects. I think Baertschi has big upside, an elite scorer, but poor potential to attain that level. I think Toffoli has a better chance of attaining the expectations which are a finishing forward with a solid two way game. Because of his position and size I would take Toffoli over Baertschi on the Flames, especially when you consider the development of the depth on the LW in the Flames system. When you consider that the Flames have Gaudreau, Granlund and Ferland to compete with Baertschi, and only left shooting Poirier as a RW prospect with any major upside, I see this as a deal you make for the betterment of the system and team. Especially when you consider the number of LW prospects in this coming draft and the complete lack of RW prospects. There has to be some balance in the system and the Flames have way too many LW prospects and not enough RWs. That has to change. If moving Baertschi got us a top end RW like Toffoli, I think they have to make that deal.

[Malkin]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I don't know if Toffoli is better than Sven.

He's just good, and playing for a team that might be winning to move a future piece to win while their window is open.

Toffoli is a much better prospect than Baertschi, the only issue Toffoli has ever had is skating. He's ripping up the AHL.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Malkin

Toffoli is a much better prospect than Baertschi, the only issue Toffoli has ever had is skating. He's ripping up the AHL.

Toffoli has 24 points in 49 NHL games, and hasn't been able to stay in the Kings' line-up because he has problems playing a full 200 ft game.

Baertschi has 24 points in 51 NHL games and hasn't been able to stay in the Flames' line-up because he has problems playing a full 200 ft game.

This silliness needs to stop. Stop overvaluing other team's prospects and crapping on ours. Toffoli is 6 months older than Sven and is on a nearly identical development path. "The only issue Toffoli has ever had is skating" just isn't true.

Ugh, so tiresome. If fans of this team can't have patience with one young, very promising prospect - how are they going to survive the 3-4 year (if we're lucky) rebuild process?

[Tinordi]

Toffoli isn't in the NHL because LA has one of the deepest forward groups in the league.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Toffoli isn't in the NHL because LA has one of the deepest forward groups in the league.

No, they really don't. They have some pretty poor depth on the wings, actually. They're struggling to score goals, they're 2nd last in the entire league in goals scored - something Toffoli would be helping with if he actually was as good as these threads have been building up to be.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^^ I love to compare reality vs CP reality

[stemit14]

Baertschi had a goal last night against the checkers... He's been playing great in abbotsford over the last eight or so games. I'm hoping this means he's getting his confidence back. It would be great to see the hudler-Monahan-baertschi line reunited after the trade deadline.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Baertschi had a goal last night against the checkers... He's been playing great in abbotsford over the last eight or so games. I'm hoping this means he's getting his confidence back. It would be great to see the hudler-Monahan-baertschi line reunited after the trade deadline.

I don't know. I'd kind of rather see Bart spend the rest of the season with the Heat. There are other players that have been doing really well down there for the entire season that I think should get the call-up over him (Granlund, Reinhart).

I also think it would be good to make Sven have to earn a spot out of camp next season.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Baertschi had a goal last night against the checkers... He's been playing great in abbotsford over the last eight or so games. I'm hoping this means he's getting his confidence back. It would be great to see the hudler-Monahan-baertschi line reunited after the trade deadline.

you're overstating how good Sven has been. "Great" is not a word anyone that watches the team would use for Sven despite him starting to produce.

He has improved, especially the last few games but there hasn't been a single game where he has been the best forward for the Heat. Hell usually there are 3-4 forwards better than him on any given night.

He has the skill and ability where he should be the most dynamic forward on the Heat by a wide margin, he needs to step up and become that.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Toffoli has 24 points in 49 NHL games, and hasn't been able to stay in the Kings' line-up because he has problems playing a full 200 ft game.

Baertschi has 24 points in 51 NHL games and hasn't been able to stay in the Flames' line-up because he has problems playing a full 200 ft game.

This silliness needs to stop. Stop overvaluing other team's prospects and crapping on ours. Toffoli is 6 months older than Sven and is on a nearly identical development path. "The only issue Toffoli has ever had is skating" just isn't true.

Ugh, so tiresome. If fans of this team can't have patience with one young, very promising prospect - how are they going to survive the 3-4 year (if we're lucky) rebuild process?

LOL at the bolded part, especially at the "can't have patience with one young forward" means they can't handle a rebuild.

While i am not sure I would trade Sven for Toffoli, at least "New Era" and "Malkin" are trying to address a need that the Flames lack. The Flames lack RW depth, especailly right handed shot. The flames have almost no right handed shot players in the system. The only one i can think of is Knight.

I have said it before and i will say it again that there should be no untouchables on the flames. We have a lot of good LW prospect depth, might as well trade some of it for RW or D prospect depth if the right player comes along.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

I like Sven, even have a heat jersey of his but he's far from untouchable. I think moving him now is pointless as his potential vs current level makes him far more valuable to us than as a moveable asset, but if the right move comes up you pull the trigger. Especially considering our prospect depth at LW

[calculoso]

RT @DarrenHaynes_CP Neat fact from @Kent_Wilson worth repeating. Career NHL stats:
- Monahan: 51 gm, 24 pts (16 g, 8 a)
- Baertschi: 51 gm, 24 pts (8 g, 16 a)

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by calculoso

RT @DarrenHaynes_CP Neat fact from @Kent_Wilson worth repeating. Career NHL stats:
- Monahan: 51 gm, 24 pts (16 g, 8 a)
- Baertschi: 51 gm, 24 pts (8 g, 16 a)

Not that +/- is the be all end all, but for all the hand wringing about Sven's defensive play:

Sven: -2
Monahan: -11

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by calculoso

RT @DarrenHaynes_CP Neat fact from @Kent_Wilson worth repeating. Career NHL stats:
- Monahan: 51 gm, 24 pts (16 g, 8 a)
- Baertschi: 51 gm, 24 pts (8 g, 16 a)

we better trade Monahan for a 6th rounder!