What is Sven's value right now ?

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by T@T

I would say he's just beat down, It's clear Burke and Hartley didn't like his so-called off ice issues and as soon as Feaster was gone decided to punish him like a little kid.

Before someone says he's not ready to play in the NHL..I call BS. this is a rebuilding team and he was far from the worst winger on this team when big mouth Burkey sent him down.

The way they are treating this kid borders on ######ation.

Originally Posted by T@T

Point is he shouldn't be there.

I feel like im taking crazy pills reading these posts.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is it just me, or are the threads about Sven some of the most painful in CP?

Well it's embarrassing how some people are reacting to uneven development of a young player. Like seriously ... trade him?

It's not going to be all sunshine and roses, and I'm curious to see what happens next year when we have a new shiny prospect and Monahan slumps.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by T@T

Point is he shouldn't be there.

Why shouldn't Baertschi be in the NHL?

What is wrong with forcing a player who literally appears to be 'not ready' go back down to a development league for seasoning and development?

I look at the NHL career as an arc. At the start, all players have to meet some sort of a 'threshold' mark whereby they aren't 'ruined' by playing in the NHL, and have the ability to improve. Over the seasons, they continue to improve until they hit that peak and start plateauing out somewhat for 'x' amount of seasons, and then gradually (or sometimes quickly in some cases) come back down the arc until the fall below that certain threshold of competency.

Baertschi didn't have it. Colborne didn't have it for the first 8-10 games, but he certainly has it now. Baertschi had his chance and only showed himself to be an NHL-capable player for short stretches. He looked bad at development camp, and he hasn't looked consistently good all year. Was this the Baertschi you were expecting? It was not the Calder candidate I was expecting.

What is really wrong with sending him back down for seasoning? Do you really believe Hartley doesn't like rookies? Monahan, Colborne, Backlund, Brodie, Russel, Bouma - these are all guys that represent rookies and/or youth on the team, and they have all been noticeably improving. Baertschi wasn't. When a rookie is not improving, he should be sent down to avoid 'ruining' the player.

What is wrong with making him earn it? Why do Granlund, Reinhart and Knight all look much better and consistent than Baertschi? Is it fair for them to see Baertschi on the Flames, while they are toiling away in the AHL even though they are ahead at this point? Wouldn't this lead to problems in the mindsets of the other prospects?

Make Baertschi earn it. I have no doubt he will, and I am positive it will only make him a better and more effective player because of it. I can't see how this is 'hurting' him. If it is hurting him, then the only reason is that he has entitlement/arrogance character issues, and the organization should part ways with him in a trade then. I don't think that is what is going on here, and I don't think Sven will get traded at all. He just needs more development time than what most people assumed.

Why would Sven feel he was being mistreated? Because he wasn't treated like the entitled brats up north and catered to in every way? That is NOT how you breed good hockey players. You make them earn their stripes, and Baertschi just hasn't been doing so. I am 100% confident he will, however, as Drury has stated on the Heat forum, he looks like he is turning it around.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

so you are thinking that if he was with any other organization that he would be on the big club playing T6 minutes and the flames are too stupid to figure that out?

I would guess just about any non playoff team yes!

This is a rebuilding team, Sven was suppose to be part of the future and maybe he still will be but the way he was treated from day one by Burke tells me differently,he had a poor camp and started off bad but he was playing pretty will when he got sent down a better than some of the other bums on this team.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

so you are thinking that if he was with the Oilers that he would be on the big club playing T6 minutes and the flames are too stupid to figure that out?

FYP

T@T, you've gone off the deep end. Baertschi did nothing to earn his keep in the NHL, and he's now struggling to find his place in the AHL. He's right where he belongs. While with the Flames he was given a plum opportunity, playing with Monahan and Hudler. He did little with that opportunity. He's now in a league he should be tearing up and he's being badly upstaged by Reinhart, Granlund and Knight.

I wonder where Baertschi stands on the depth chart right now. With Granlund playing LW and Gaudreau coming out of college he's going to have some very stiff competition come next year. The one thing Baertschi can be thankful for is Michael Ferland getting injured. Ferland was giving management a boner and would have been another player to push Sven on the left side. Baertschi has his work cut out for him and he better come to camp prepared next season. His NHL career likely depends on it.

[thymebalm]

Sven's value today is a 2nd line winger on a top-10 AHL team.

So buy stock now. It took a dip last quarter with the new CEO coming in, but I have a feeling by this time next year, we could be rich. Rich I tell you!!!

This time next year he might have his game sorted out enough to play in the NHL, but have patience with the 20 year old if you can.

[FAN]

I'm amazed at the number of people who think that Sven has no value just because he's playing in the AHL. Baertschi is a former high first round pick (that has value) with a distinguished WHL career who has shown flashes of potential in the NHL. He has one year remaining on his ELC and has 8 goals and 24 points in 51 NHL games thus far in his young career, which isn't bad numbers for a rookie.

Is Sven worth a top 10 pick? No. A first round pick? Most likely not. But he's worth at least a 3rd and most likely a 2nd round pick at this point. For comparison's sake Filatov was traded for a 3rd and Filatov was a flight risk, Peter Holland + salary dump returned a prospect, a 3rd, and a 7th and both those guys have had more years to crack the NHL than Baertschi did.

[Henry Fool]

Young players go through stuff. Whatever you think of his trade value, it's still the same Sven you were excited about a few months ago.

[Northendzone]

Sven must have been reading this thread, they mentioned this morning that he scored last night.....he now has three goals this season

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I was with you until your last sentence. As you said we don't know what's really going on in the dressing so it's unfair to say he's throwing in the towel - we don't know his mindset.

I actually completely agree with you. He may just be working on other aspects of his game (although those that have watched him, I have not seen him play in Abby, suggest he is not playing hard and looks dissinterested), trying to do things to improve. If that's the case, this whole convo is moot.

My response was in response to a poster who was making the assumption (potentially correctly) that Sven is "broken" by his treatment and the Flames brass has really miss stepped here. I'm simply stating that if you believe that, it's not something one should worry about and blame the Flames for, Sven's response to his treatment has been abysmal and doesn't reflect well on his character..............again, making the huge and potentially incorrect assumption that he is indeed, "broken" by what's going on.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by T@T

Not sure your point is serious.

Sven out played Glencross for most of the early season plus Curtis has been gone for 35 games, he played like garbage and got a free ride.

Bouma is not a top 6 forward(Sven has outscored him 2-1)

Problem with your logic is that you can use the same line of reasoning at this point to argue that Sven shouldn't be on the Heat.........but in the ECHL instead.

Sven's place on the Flames and development has nothing, zero, nada to do with Glencross. Two players at very different points in their careers, who mean very different things to this organization and have completely different development paths. Cherry picking a player who you think Sven has outplayed to make an argument to why he should be in the NHL is completely irrelevant and useless argument.

Even if your point on Glencross was correct, this is a rebuilding team who's goal is not to ice the best line up possible this year, it's to do the right thing long term for the Flames, and if putting Sven in Abby to work on his game is the best thing for that, then so be it. Also, if the goal was to launch the best line up and your point was correct about Glencross........there are at least 6 forwards on the Heat that deserve his spot over Sven right now anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Sven must have been reading this thread, they mentioned this morning that he scored last night.....he now has three goals this season

4 game scoring streak 1 goal 3 assists +1 ..... Heat 4 game winning streak.

In isolation sounds good ... but compared to his small-skilled competition: Granlund over the last 4 games has 4 goals, 7 points and is +4

[stemit14]

It's so hard to translate success in the AHL with success in the NHL. Look at Ben Street... Watching his highlights playing for the heat and being an AHL All Star you would think that he has the makings of a top six forward in the NHL but it's definitely not the case.

It is promising how well granlund and Knight have done in their rookie seasons. I think baertschi could really turn it around and go on a good run here and hopefully earn a call up after the trade deadline.

[Iggy Snipe]

Svens market value right now is next to nothing. We should not be even thinking about trading the guy. Hold on to him, and give him a real shot at developing. HIm being in the AHL is where is needs to be right now. He is struggling at the AHL level right now, which means he is low on confidence. He reminds me of Backlund, we put too much into what we thought he was at the start of his pro career. It takes time to develop a lot of players. Calgary rushed him in (feaster), and that was the wrong move. Why was it the wrong move? Well he had a lot of time up in the NHL and did nothing with it, except get worse and lose all confidence. He is where he needs to be right now, starting over, trying to find his game. He does have the talent and potential or else he wouldn't be there either. So his value is low. He is a long term project IMO which could turn into a top six forward, at least top 9.

[Malkin]

Probably a 6th round pick. He is producing much even in the AHL.

[Money Baer]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

4 game scoring streak 1 goal 3 assists +1 ..... Heat 4 game winning streak.

In isolation sounds good ... but compared to his small-skilled competition: Granlund over the last 4 games has 4 goals, 7 points and is +4

Yes, but that's not taking into account chemistry, linemates, ice-time, etc.

(Also, Granlund isn't that small.. 6'0 - 185lbs)

[FlameZilla]

It must be enlightening for Sven to be with the Heat right now.

With Knight, Granlund & Reinhart tearing it up & putting up huge numbers around him Baertschi can clearly see that he is not the only 'Great White Hope' for the franchise.

I genuinely think Sven has a good head on his shoulders; any perceived attitude problems are borne out of his desire to be the 'messiah' of this franchise. When I've seen him interviewed he seems like a passionate kid, and really dedicated to the cause. He's as hard on himself as any coach or GM could be. When he arrived on the scene he was genuinely one of the only blue-chip prospects we had. Now the cupboards have been restocked & he is just one of a few excellent prospects on the cusp of being a full-time NHLer, so he has to adjust his mindset.

Basically, Sven set very high expectations for himself (as did everyone else) and now that he's not immediately lived up to them he (and the fans) need to be patient and have the belief that he can live up to his great potential. Chin up, Sven.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Svens value ? According to capgeek , $70,000 annually in the AHL. His value would rise dramatically if they'd call him up.

[Freeway]

Backlund, Brodie and Bouma all yo-yoed from the NHL to the AHL and back during their ELCs. It's actually pretty standard for young players.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Malkin

Probably a 6th round pick. He is producing much even in the AHL.

Am I ever glad you aren't our GM