Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Honestly given the flood/renovations at the dome I fully expect another 5 years of beating around the bush & run around on the announcement. The Flames are content to sit on their hands and let the Oiler's play out their side show first.

I agree the plan may be to use the Oilers as a stalking horse to see what kind of government funding shakes out. However, I don't see how the flood disrupted plans. Weren't the renos covered by insurance?

[Table 5]

Perhaps playing devils advocate a bit....but at what point does it go from "The Flames aren't saying anything because they are professionally handling things and everything is just around the corner, and they want to release it all at once" to "maybe things are going really slow because Ken King doesn't really know what he is doing because he's never been involved in the Development industry before" ?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Perhaps playing devils advocate a bit....but at what point does it go from "The Flames aren't saying anything because they are professionally handling things and everything is just around the corner, and they want to release it all at once" to "maybe things are going really slow because Ken King doesn't really know what he is doing because he's never been involved in the Development industry before" ?

Personally, I think it has gotten to that point already.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Muta

I believe that would be the plan. The westbound lanes would be aligned with the eastbound lanes tight against the tracks.

That's not what the ARP says. But then again, the ARP doesn't accomodate an arena or two either.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by SebC

That's not what the ARP says. But then again, the ARP doesn't accomodate an arena or two either.

Bingo. Nothing is set in stone.

[strombad]

I just wish there was some VAGUE idea of when things would be announced. I know that several things have come up, and more things could come up, but it would be nice to know if they were ACTUALLY close or something by now.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by strombad

I just wish there was some VAGUE idea of when things would be announced. I know that several things have come up, and more things could come up, but it would be nice to know if they were ACTUALLY close or something by now.

That's the thing with things, they always come up.

[Locke]

FFS. I could have built my own stadium for the Flames by now. And it would have been better. There'd have been hookers. And Blackjack.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I agree the plan may be to use the Oilers as a stalking horse to see what kind of government funding shakes out. However, I don't see how the flood disrupted plans. Weren't the renos covered by insurance?

I was thinking less so the money side of things, and more from the "well our dressing rooms and backend facilities are brand new." So for the people working in the dome everyday their facilities are recently renovated and probably fairly comfortable for another few years.

[macrov]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Perhaps playing devils advocate a bit....but at what point does it go from "The Flames aren't saying anything because they are professionally handling things and everything is just around the corner, and they want to release it all at once" to "maybe things are going really slow because Ken King doesn't really know what he is doing because he's never been involved in the Development industry before" ?

I dont think this is the issue. I think the problem is two fold:

1) An arena doesn't make sense for the flames to do by themselves. At a $400mln price tag, the additional revenues don't justify the costs. Even with a new arena fee tacked on to each ticket, even with the additional luxury boxes, even with lower operating costs, the Flames need subsidies worth $100mln + free land to make a new arena feesible.

2) Nenshi has been adamant about covering none of the cost. Nor should the city. Not to be classist, but the arena does tend to serve the upper-middle and upper class of flames society. Its not people in forest lawn and white horn that have season tickets and pay $200 so their kids can go sing "Baby Baby Baby Ohh" with the Biebs. Why the government should subsidize that is beyond me. Maybe back in the day when tickets were $10 and accessible to all, but its not that world anymore. This is the world of millionaires in mount royal and corporate executives.

3) Reading the comments from Ken King over the years, and now Brian Burke, my feeling was that they were really hoping that their "free land" and 100mln in subsidies would look like nothing compared to amount Edmonton is subsidizing their circus act. And they're pulling out a lot of stops to get public support:
- "We need it to attract good players"
- "Its not just about hockey fans, we need it for concerts"
-"This franchise is all about giving back to the community"
-"If the players don't serve the public, they'll be gone"
- "sports facilities are distinctly different from franchises, with the venues offering broad appeal and use to the public."
- "hope to access public support — be it infrastructure, direct funding or some other form — when the time comes."

Basically, without public funding or a $100mln loss from Murray an arena wont be built. So the Flames are probably continuing to lobby the Feds for money. Until they get it, the arena will be in Limbo.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Locke

FFS. I could have built my own stadium for the Flames by now. And it would have been better. There'd have been hookers. And Blackjack.

In fact, forget the stadium!

[saillias]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I agree the plan may be to use the Oilers as a stalking horse to see what kind of government funding shakes out. However, I don't see how the flood disrupted plans. Weren't the renos covered by insurance?

Yes they've been using the Oilers thing as an excuse for the last 5 years. At some point do you not stop twiddling your thumbs and try to move forward with something? The Dome is dated now, not just in 2020, but in 2014.

[Scary Eloranta]

Originally Posted by macrov

I dont think this is the issue. I think the problem is two fold:

1) An arena doesn't make sense for the flames to do by themselves. At a $400mln price tag, the additional revenues don't justify the costs. Even with a new arena fee tacked on to each ticket, even with the additional luxury boxes, even with lower operating costs, the Flames need subsidies worth $100mln + free land to make a new arena feesible.

2) Nenshi has been adamant about covering none of the cost. Nor should the city. Not to be classist, but the arena does tend to serve the upper-middle and upper class of flames society. Its not people in forest lawn and white horn that have season tickets and pay $200 so their kids can go sing "Baby Baby Baby Ohh" with the Biebs. Why the government should subsidize that is beyond me. Maybe back in the day when tickets were $10 and accessible to all, but its not that world anymore. This is the world of millionaires in mount royal and corporate executives.

3) Reading the comments from Ken King over the years, and now Brian Burke, my feeling was that they were really hoping that their "free land" and 100mln in subsidies would look like nothing compared to amount Edmonton is subsidizing their circus act. And they're pulling out a lot of stops to get public support:
- "We need it to attract good players"
- "Its not just about hockey fans, we need it for concerts"
-"This franchise is all about giving back to the community"
-"If the players don't serve the public, they'll be gone"
- "sports facilities are distinctly different from franchises, with the venues offering broad appeal and use to the public."
- "hope to access public support — be it infrastructure, direct funding or some other form — when the time comes."

Basically, without public funding or a $100mln loss from Murray an arena wont be built. So the Flames are probably continuing to lobby the Feds for money. Until they get it, the arena will be in Limbo.

sigh... from this it sounds like many more years of long washroom and concession lineups, missed concerts, etc. Not to mention the absolutely brutal football experience which is too lengthy to list here. Now we'll be surpassed by Edmonton AND Regina. The horror....

[Tyler]

Remember when Ken King came in here and posted during the 2004 lockout?

Would be great if he could answer some of the questions being posed in this thread (or at least give another update).

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Muta

I believe that would be the plan. The westbound lanes would be aligned with the eastbound lanes tight against the tracks.

I'm curious though:

If the West Village is developed as a mixed use community, the ARP specifies an 9th St alignment for Bow Trail eastbound and 8th St Alignment for Bow Trail westbound. This pushes Bow Trail away from the river - nice.

If the we instead put a large arena with underground parking on the Greyhound site (and not close to pumphouse), 8th St for westbound Bow Trail goes out the window (unless it goes under the arena - unlikely), but wouldn't an arena greatly benefit from being between two one ways? The south parkade exit would go to eastbound Bow Trail, and the north parkade exit would go westbound. The way I see it, if an arena complex were to be built there, it would favor the existing alignment of Bow Trail or at least something very similar.

What makes you see it differently?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

In fact, forget the stadium!

Who needs a stadium anyways?

[taco.vidal]

-Cool idea. However, I'd prefer to go with a more conventional design. Take a look at what some of he best rinks built in the past decade have, incorporate the good stuff and maybe make some small improvements that are available today.
Id hate to go with something futuristic like the moving ceiling that hasn't been widely used and then have a hunk of junk in ten years time.

-Location... Big Four would be my choice. I love the current location for accessibility and proximity to downtown, 17th Ave, 4th St, etc.
Firepark? The way I attend games would definitely change. We would go to a lot less games and would likely be more of going just to the game rather than making a night on the town out of a game night

[rage2]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Remember when Ken King came in here and posted during the 2004 lockout?

Would be great if he could answer some of the questions being posed in this thread (or at least give another update).

I've been to a couple of season ticket holder events, and someone always asks about the new stadium. The last 2, KK said the location has already been decided, but won't release the details until the time is right. Doubt he'll contribute more by posting here.

The only reason I can think of for withholding info is to ensure that land can be purchased at FMV. Remember the west LRT fiasco in acquiring land after everything was announced and construction started, how much that increased the budget. But that's strictly my opinion.

[Scary Eloranta]

^ I know a season ticket holder who told me something similar. KK told them the new arena would be the most ambitious building project Calgary had ever seen.

And then I think he went and hid under his desk, never to be heard from again.

[sureLoss]

So Populous spokeperson about the animation:



http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/925...over-new-barn/

Populous spokesperson Annie Hellweg told Metro the animation was a “preliminary concept” and “wasn’t necessarily particular to plans in any specific area.”

When asked why a Flames logo, in particular, would be used in the animation, Hellweg said she would look into it further, but then did not return subsequent calls Wednesday.

Calgary Flames vice-president communications Peter Hanlon said only team president Ken King could comment on the matter, but King was not available Wednesday.