[News] Shane O'Brien assigned to Heat. Breen recalled.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by troutman

I think Breen will have to fight a lot to stay on the team.

Has fighting been a part of his game in the past? Tough for a guy to start being a fighter at the NHL Level who hasn't done it before, and also defenceman who fight too much put their teams in tough spots as they often can't afford to go too long with one of the 6 in the box. If fighting isn't his game, I think it's a waste of everyone's time to try and make it that way.

Hal Gill has often been criticized for not being tough enough or physical enough for his size. Yet he's still carved out an 1100 game career, with most of those games coming after the clutch and grab era ended. I would think that's the type of player Breen might be looking to emulate.

[macrov]

Originally Posted by formulate

I would maybe take a look at the numbers. The only year Jones has more points than Tanguay is this year, and he has played 25 more games to manage 5 extra points. That's just comparing year to year. If you match up their seasons at the same age (Tanguay being 5 years older):

26yrs: Jones (2010-11); 27-18-45 in 70 games. Tanguay (05-06); 29-49-78 in 71 games.
27yrs: Jones (2011-12); 20-17-37 in 72 games. Tanguay (06-07); 22-59-81 in 81 games.
And those are Jones' two best years.

Jones does bring size and relative youth to the team, but is most certainly worth less in terms of trade value.

Yes but it's not that simple. Jones has more value to the flames because:

-he plays his role (third line) better than tanguay plays his (2nd line)

-he's a good team guy.

-he brings a strong work ethic and positive attitude to a team that is trying to build a hard working identity though a very painful rebuild.

-he's younger so will still be very serviceable towards the end of the rebuild period

The only issue with Jones is his expensive contract. But the flames dont have cap problems and won't have them for the foreseeable future, and aren't looking to trade him. So the fact that he has an expensive contract is kind of an irrelevant argument.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Has fighting been a part of his game in the past? Tough for a guy to start being a fighter at the NHL Level who hasn't done it before, and also defenceman who fight too much put their teams in tough spots as they often can't afford to go too long with one of the 6 in the box. If fighting isn't his game, I think it's a waste of everyone's time to try and make it that way.

Hal Gill has often been criticized for not being tough enough or physical enough for his size. Yet he's still carved out an 1100 game career, with most of those games coming after the clutch and grab era ended. I would think that's the type of player Breen might be looking to emulate.

Breen had 7 fights last year with Abbotsford. This year he has had 1 in the AHL and 1 in the NHL, but hasn't played a whole lot of games due to injury and being in the pressbox.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by macrov

Yes but it's not that simple. Jones has more value to the flames because:

-he plays his role (third line) better than tanguay plays his (2nd line)

-he's a good team guy.

-he brings a strong work ethic and positive attitude to a team that is trying to build a hard working identity though a very painful rebuild.

-he's younger so will still be very serviceable towards the end of the rebuild period

The only issue with Jones is his expensive contract. But the flames dont have cap problems and won't have them for the foreseeable future, and aren't looking to trade him. So the fact that he has an expensive contract is kind of an irrelevant argument.

I don't have a problem with David Jones as a player. I think most here would like to see him use his size a little more effectively, but that's true of many of the Flames. The effort and attitude he seems to bring are certainly welcome on a rebuilding club. The problem I have is more to do with asset management. Tanguay, a consistent producer just about everywhere he goes, should have been worth more than a 'serviceable' third liner with a 'good work ethic'. At least, in my opinion.

However, the trade is long since done. For now, I'll be cheering for Jones to find some chemistry with Stajan and Bouma on the third line and perhaps regain his 20-goal form.

[Sylvanfan]

Exchanging Tanguay for Jones is something that's easy enogh to live with. I guess the fact that Sarich was as disgruntled as he was with Hartley, and needing to be moved irks me. I think Sarich could have been a good mentor for some of the younger defencemen if him and the coach were more agreeable.

End of the day the cap money on O'Brien means nothing, and the Flames are likely out a potential mid round pick that they surely could have got for Sarich this season in a deadline deal. Hopefully they can find a way to get some value into O'Brien so they can move him.

[Canada 02]

would any team take SOB even if the Flames retain 50% of his salary?

[TheDebaser]

How about we give Breener a shot?

It's as if you think calling him a tweener is some kind of sentence that will and must be upheld by the laws of nature. Give the guy a shot to surprise you.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

would any team take SOB even if the Flames retain 50% of his salary?

Perhaps. I think its more likely that he is moved for a similar contract, like Tootoo or someone

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Buff

I let my love of the Flames blind me. At the time of the trade I thought the Flames won the trade, because I wanted to believe that they did. I wanted to believe that O'Brien was going to be the rough and tumble defenseman that the Flames needed. I wanted to believe that he was going to stir up crap. I wanted to believe that David Jones was going to return to being a 20 goal scorer. I wanted to believe that Sarich's career was over and that he would play a couple of games before he saw the light and retired because I wanted the Flames to look good for getting something good for an expiring player. I wanted Tanguay to stink spectacularly in Colorado.

Now. I hate this trade. I don't hate having Jones because he does bring something to the team, but not enough. I don't even compare his worth to his contract, he just isn't what I hoped for. It is nice to have that big contract on the team to help reach the cap floor though. O'Brien had some good moments, but those weren't enough to make up for his weak play. He truly doesn't belong in the NHL anymore.

Man, I hate the return Feaster got on all of his trades now.

He is on pace for 17 and isn't exactly playing with Crosby.

[MissTeeks]

I guess I'll put this here:

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=702575

After missing one game with an undisclosed injury, rearguard Ladislav Smid will return to the lineup on Tuesday when the Calgary Flames face off against the Chicago Blackhawks at the Scotiabank Saddledome.
"He feels great," head coach Bob Hartley stated. "He was [here] early in the morning, I saw him and he said, 'I feel great.'
"[He brings] grit, a great defensive presence. He's a guy who never quits. He's relentless in his puck pursuit, blocking shots. He's very effective."

David Jones broke out of a 17-game scoring slump on Friday night, netting a pair of goals in the 5-4 shootout win over the Nashville Predators, and Bob Hartley could immediately pinpoint to what has led to the winger's recent success.
"Fred and Barney," the bench boss grinned, referring to the Flinstones characters who run their cars with their feet.
"The biggest key for David's game is to move his feet. When this guy is skating the way he's moving now, he's a power forward. He's an NHL power forward and there's not a ton in this league. Jonesy has to believe in his game, in his talent, that he can do it every day. Right now, we're seeing this."

[KootenayFlamesFan]

So........Breen is the odd man out? Steinberg said he was skating as the extra d-man.

Might as well throw him into the fire, no sense sitting him or giving him limited minutes.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Buff

Man, I hate the return Feaster got on all of his trades now.

I agreed with everything you said except this.

Smid and Roy for Horak and Brossoit?
Russell for a 5th round pick?
Colborne for a 4th round pick?
Knight for a 4th round pick?
5th round pick for Comeau?
Wideman for Jordan Henry and a 5th round pick?
McGrattan for Joe Piskula?
1st round pick to Buffalo for their 1st and 2nd round pick-Results in Girgensons for Jankowski and Sieloff?
Stempniak for Langkow?
Cammalleri, Ramo, and 5th round pick for Bourque, Patrick Holland, and a 2nd round pick?
Roman Horak, and 2 2nd round picks for Tim Erixon and a 5th round pick-Results in Horak, Granlund, and Wotherspoon for Tim Erixon and Shane McColgan?


There is no doubt in my mind that Feaster did not do very well on the Regehr and Bouwmeester trades, and the Tanguay/Sarich trade was abysmal. The Iginla trade is debatable but was limited by his NTC. There's a lot of meh trades that didn't do much either way as well, but overall Feaster didn't do well on the bigger deals that really make or break a franchise. I think if you look at the smaller deals that make up the supporting players in the franchise, he did exceptionally well. It's hard to say Feaster was all bad, but he didn't get enough on the big deals, and that really didn't do the franchise any favors long term.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

1st round pick to Buffalo for their 1st and 2nd round pick-Results in Girgensons for Jankowski and Sieloff?

Yikes Cali, it's tough to spin that one. At least you tried.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Yikes Cali, it's tough to spin that one. At least you tried.

2 legitimate prospects for 1 that has yet to do anything of note is not a spin. Sieloff was an injury away from playing this year on a call up, and Jankowski is legitimately more of a long term project but is progressing nicely and is projected to be a top 2 center. Girgensons is more of a sure thing, but is likely nothing more than a 3rd line center.

[Enoch Root]

There is no hope of a rational debate on the Jankowski pick.

In 3 or 4 years, one group will be proven right and the other group will pretend they were part of the former group

[Scoutski]

I imagine Hartley wants to get a look at Breen before they throw him into a game, so he sits out tomorrow.

Can anyone link any source material about Sarich being unhappy with Hartley's coaching? This is the first time I'd ever heard that?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

2 legitimate prospects for 1 that has yet to do anything of note is not a spin. Sieloff was an injury away from playing this year on a call up, and Jankowski is legitimately more of a long term project but is progressing nicely and is projected to be a top 2 center. Girgensons is more of a sure thing, but is likely nothing more than a 3rd line center.

Girgensons has done more than Jankowski or Sieloff combined, so I'm not sure what you're getting at when you characterize the two Flames prospects as "Legitimate", but Girgensons as "hasn't done anything of note".

It also isn't a given that Girgensons would have or should have been selected by the Flames.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

2 legitimate prospects for 1 that has yet to do anything of note is not a spin. Sieloff was an injury away from playing this year on a call up, and Jankowski is legitimately more of a long term project but is progressing nicely and is projected to be a top 2 center. Girgensons is more of a sure thing, but is likely nothing more than a 3rd line center.

Sorry but this is Oiler level delusion/propaganda

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Scoutski

I imagine Hartley wants to get a look at Breen before they throw him into a game, so he sits out tomorrow.

Can anyone link any source material about Sarich being unhappy with Hartley's coaching? This is the first time I'd ever heard that?

"It was just the opinion of a coach. Or coaches," said Sarich, whose Flames were coached last season and still are by former Avs bench boss Bob Hartley. "The last two years, they didn't play me for a bit and then I come back and I was — not to toot my own horn or anything — but I was a really solid defenseman for our team. It just seems that the start of every season, it gets overlooked a little bit. So it's nice to have some people putting some faith in me again."

Read more: Cory Sarich enjoying rebirth of NHL career with Avalanche - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/...#ixzz2rdWCWFfk

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Girgensons has done more than Jankowski or Sieloff combined, so I'm not sure what you're getting at when you characterize the two Flames prospects as "Legitimate", but Girgensons as "hasn't done anything of note".

It also isn't a given that Girgensons would have or should have been selected by the Flames.

Apologies. I was honestly thinking of a different prospect than Girgensons. Not sure how I got him confused.

Don't want to derail the thread, but I still think it was an ok move to get 2 prospects to help the team over just 1, even if he was a sure bet.