"Got land? Thank an Indian."

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by SebC

I don't see renegotation as a solution. We'd just be replacing one set of inequalities with another.

I still think the wheat board is a good analogy. Should the government have the right to end the wheat board, if it has been previously agreed that the wheat board can only be disbanded with consent? I think the government should have that right. The right of society as a whole to make democratic changes trumps the contract.

I only meant renegotiation if both sides found it favorable, it might be a good solution to work through the current problems. Better than the government ignoring a lot of the concerns right now. If both sides have a reason to come to the table, it could get things done better than they are now.

[PsYcNeT]

I like how 75% of the #######s talking #### in this thread have like 50 posts.

Go back to lurking and post less.

[PsYcNeT]

"Hurrr drive-by "joke" that does nothing but prove I'm an intolerant prick."

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I only meant renegotiation if both sides found it favorable, it might be a good solution to work through the current problems. Better than the government ignoring a lot of the concerns right now. If both sides have a reason to come to the table, it could get things done better than they are now.

Please, no renegotiation on anything. They would want so much, way more money, land, rights. We would get screwed on that deal

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

Please, no renegotiation on anything. They would want so much, way more money, land, rights. We would get screwed on that deal

I can't even begin to think of adjectives to describe my feelings towards the intolerance in your posts.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I can't even begin to think of adjectives to describe my feelings towards the intolerance in your posts.

Well it starts with F and is Uck in the middle and then ends with Off.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Madman

....but I thought "Indian" was a bard word now.

Whatever fits your agenda I guess.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

Please, no renegotiation on anything. They would want so much, way more money, land, rights. We would get screwed on that deal

Actually I was speaking about renegotiation that is more suited to the government, as they don't seem to be following through with all the promises anyway.

Some native leaders have agreed that things need to be reworked on both ends and are open to renegotiation, as long as it allows a way to move forward and put a lot of the problems behind them. Some of the deals were signed hundreds of years ago, and make less and less sense as each year passes by. Some do agree that the communities and native people in and out of reserves need to be more responsible with their own destiny.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you'd be okay with government tearing up contracts for land purchased for the extraction of minerals by private companies, if said extractions proved to have negative effects on the say the collective's environment?

A net benefit test must include more than just environmental concerns, but if the government determines that it will better serve its citizens by voiding a contract than by honouring it, it should have that right.

============

Originally Posted by Daradon

I only meant renegotiation if both sides found it favorable, it might be a good solution to work through the current problems. Better than the government ignoring a lot of the concerns right now. If both sides have a reason to come to the table, it could get things done better than they are now.

I know. My point is to get the "indians" to give their up privileges voluntarily, we'd have to offer them other privileges. That's not a path to equality.

[Daradon]

^^^ Uhhh, well not necessarily. I guess part of the difficulty is there are so many different bands, and leaders, and even larger groups or associations, and there's the politics that comes with that. There are band leaders that are forward thinking and care deeply about their people and communities that are willing to 'play ball' for lack of a better term and then there are others that seem to be using the plight their people to amass as much as they can from the government, while often ignoring their peoples needs at the same time. And of course, everything in between.

With lack of real central leadership, it's hard to negotiate things that may affect all groups.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm wondering how many of the experts on First Nations issues here have actually lived and worked in areas where Natives are the majority. I get the sense a lot of people here are discussing this issue over their lattes and yops and don't have any real life experience on the issue.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm wondering how many of the experts on First Nations issues here have actually lived and worked in areas where Natives are the majority. I get the sense a lot of people here are discussing this issue over their lattes and yops and don't have any real life experience on the issue.

"It's not my fault I'm a racist bag of ####, it's theirs!"

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

"It's not my fault I'm a racist bag of ####, it's theirs!"

I don't care if you think I am racist. Probably about 25% of my friends are natives and they would all tell you the same things I would tell you. We used to host First Nations kids at our home so they could be close to schools.

I could go on and on about the self inflicted damage First Nations do to themselves. When I worked in Northern BC, our company had to stop letting us stay on reserves because of the racism we faced... and we were hired by them to provide services that would improve their quality of lives. My roommate from university is pretty much shunned on his reserve because he "sold out" to the white man by getting educated and moving.

The funny thing is, I have met more First Nations people who chastise these behaviours than white people who do.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't care if you think I am racist. Probably about 25% of my friends are natives and they would all tell you the same things I would tell you. We used to host First Nations kids at our home so they could be close to schools.

I could go on and on about the self inflicted damage First Nations do to themselves. When I worked in Northern BC, our company had to stop letting us stay on reserves because of the racism we faced... and we were hired by them to provide services that would improve their quality of lives. My roommate from university is pretty much shunned on his reserve because he "sold out" to the white man by getting educated and moving.

The funny thing is, I have met more First Nations people who chastise these behaviours than white people who do.

"I can't be racist, I have black friends!" Come on man, you're not even trying.

Hate the people, not the race. I mean, I hate you because you're a bigoted #######, not because you're non-native.

[The Fonz]

Holy Christ this is intense

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I could go on and on about the self inflicted damage First Nations do to themselves. When I worked in Northern BC, our company had to stop letting us stay on reserves because of the racism we faced... and we were hired by them to provide services that would improve their quality of lives. My roommate from university is pretty much shunned on his reserve because he "sold out" to the white man by getting educated and moving.

We had an employee who worked for us and also lived on reserve at Hobbema. She was a good employee but she faced a lot of bullying and pressure by her peers as a result of getting a job. Eventually she was jumped by 5 guys, who put her in the hospital for a for a few days all because she had a job which she wouldn't leave.

After that she turned in her resignation. Really sad story.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Hate the people, not the race.

Even better, don't hate anyone.

[crazy_eoj]

I think it's pretty clear the reserve system is an abject failure. I think anything we can do to remove it would a benefit to everyone. Giving them private ownership of their land would be a good first step, even if incredibly difficult in practice.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I think it's pretty clear the reserve system is an abject failure. I think anything we can do to remove it would a benefit to everyone. Giving them private ownership of their land would be a good first step, even if incredibly difficult in practice.

Yeah, I think the best route probably will be a new plan, or outside the box idea, instead of trying to fix the current system. Whether or not that ever happens, ehhhh...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

We had an employee who worked for us and also lived on reserve at Hobbema. She was a good employee but she faced a lot of bullying and pressure by her peers as a result of getting a job. Eventually she was jumped by 5 guys, who put her in the hospital for a for a few days all because she had a job which she wouldn't leave.

After that she turned in her resignation. Really sad story.

I heard and interview on how Hobbema (now known as Maskwacis) got it's name.