Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-16-2014, 11:18 PM   #121
Daradon
Has lived the dream!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Where I lay my head is home...
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC View Post
I don't see renegotation as a solution. We'd just be replacing one set of inequalities with another.

I still think the wheat board is a good analogy. Should the government have the right to end the wheat board, if it has been previously agreed that the wheat board can only be disbanded with consent? I think the government should have that right. The right of society as a whole to make democratic changes trumps the contract.
I only meant renegotiation if both sides found it favorable, it might be a good solution to work through the current problems. Better than the government ignoring a lot of the concerns right now. If both sides have a reason to come to the table, it could get things done better than they are now.
Daradon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 11:21 PM   #122
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

I like how 75% of the #######s talking #### in this thread have like 50 posts.

Go back to lurking and post less.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 11:22 PM   #123
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

"Hurrr drive-by "joke" that does nothing but prove I'm an intolerant prick."
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 11:22 PM   #124
flamesfan1297
First Line Centre
 
flamesfan1297's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: I will never cheer for losses
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daradon View Post
I only meant renegotiation if both sides found it favorable, it might be a good solution to work through the current problems. Better than the government ignoring a lot of the concerns right now. If both sides have a reason to come to the table, it could get things done better than they are now.
Please, no renegotiation on anything. They would want so much, way more money, land, rights. We would get screwed on that deal
flamesfan1297 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to flamesfan1297 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-16-2014, 11:25 PM   #125
Cole436
First Line Centre
 
Cole436's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamesfan1297 View Post
Please, no renegotiation on anything. They would want so much, way more money, land, rights. We would get screwed on that deal
I can't even begin to think of adjectives to describe my feelings towards the intolerance in your posts.
__________________
Cole436 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Cole436 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-16-2014, 11:26 PM   #126
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole436 View Post
I can't even begin to think of adjectives to describe my feelings towards the intolerance in your posts.
Well it starts with F and is Uck in the middle and then ends with Off.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PsYcNeT For This Useful Post:
Old 01-17-2014, 12:05 AM   #127
longsuffering
First Line Centre
 
longsuffering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madman View Post
....but I thought "Indian" was a bard word now.

Whatever fits your agenda I guess.
longsuffering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to longsuffering For This Useful Post:
Old 01-17-2014, 12:07 AM   #128
Daradon
Has lived the dream!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Where I lay my head is home...
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamesfan1297 View Post
Please, no renegotiation on anything. They would want so much, way more money, land, rights. We would get screwed on that deal
Actually I was speaking about renegotiation that is more suited to the government, as they don't seem to be following through with all the promises anyway.

Some native leaders have agreed that things need to be reworked on both ends and are open to renegotiation, as long as it allows a way to move forward and put a lot of the problems behind them. Some of the deals were signed hundreds of years ago, and make less and less sense as each year passes by. Some do agree that the communities and native people in and out of reserves need to be more responsible with their own destiny.
Daradon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 01:52 AM   #129
SebC
tromboner
 
SebC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
So you'd be okay with government tearing up contracts for land purchased for the extraction of minerals by private companies, if said extractions proved to have negative effects on the say the collective's environment?
A net benefit test must include more than just environmental concerns, but if the government determines that it will better serve its citizens by voiding a contract than by honouring it, it should have that right.

============

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daradon View Post
I only meant renegotiation if both sides found it favorable, it might be a good solution to work through the current problems. Better than the government ignoring a lot of the concerns right now. If both sides have a reason to come to the table, it could get things done better than they are now.
I know. My point is to get the "indians" to give their up privileges voluntarily, we'd have to offer them other privileges. That's not a path to equality.
SebC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 02:10 AM   #130
Daradon
Has lived the dream!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Where I lay my head is home...
Exp:
Default

^^^ Uhhh, well not necessarily. I guess part of the difficulty is there are so many different bands, and leaders, and even larger groups or associations, and there's the politics that comes with that. There are band leaders that are forward thinking and care deeply about their people and communities that are willing to 'play ball' for lack of a better term and then there are others that seem to be using the plight their people to amass as much as they can from the government, while often ignoring their peoples needs at the same time. And of course, everything in between.

With lack of real central leadership, it's hard to negotiate things that may affect all groups.
Daradon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 08:33 AM   #131
FlamesAddiction
Franchise Player
 
FlamesAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

I'm wondering how many of the experts on First Nations issues here have actually lived and worked in areas where Natives are the majority. I get the sense a lot of people here are discussing this issue over their lattes and yops and don't have any real life experience on the issue.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
FlamesAddiction is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 08:42 AM   #132
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction View Post
I'm wondering how many of the experts on First Nations issues here have actually lived and worked in areas where Natives are the majority. I get the sense a lot of people here are discussing this issue over their lattes and yops and don't have any real life experience on the issue.
"It's not my fault I'm a racist bag of ####, it's theirs!"
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 08:54 AM   #133
FlamesAddiction
Franchise Player
 
FlamesAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcNeT View Post
"It's not my fault I'm a racist bag of ####, it's theirs!"
I don't care if you think I am racist. Probably about 25% of my friends are natives and they would all tell you the same things I would tell you. We used to host First Nations kids at our home so they could be close to schools.

I could go on and on about the self inflicted damage First Nations do to themselves. When I worked in Northern BC, our company had to stop letting us stay on reserves because of the racism we faced... and we were hired by them to provide services that would improve their quality of lives. My roommate from university is pretty much shunned on his reserve because he "sold out" to the white man by getting educated and moving.

The funny thing is, I have met more First Nations people who chastise these behaviours than white people who do.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
FlamesAddiction is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FlamesAddiction For This Useful Post:
Old 01-17-2014, 08:56 AM   #134
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction View Post
I don't care if you think I am racist. Probably about 25% of my friends are natives and they would all tell you the same things I would tell you. We used to host First Nations kids at our home so they could be close to schools.

I could go on and on about the self inflicted damage First Nations do to themselves. When I worked in Northern BC, our company had to stop letting us stay on reserves because of the racism we faced... and we were hired by them to provide services that would improve their quality of lives. My roommate from university is pretty much shunned on his reserve because he "sold out" to the white man by getting educated and moving.

The funny thing is, I have met more First Nations people who chastise these behaviours than white people who do.
"I can't be racist, I have black friends!" Come on man, you're not even trying.

Hate the people, not the race. I mean, I hate you because you're a bigoted #######, not because you're non-native.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 09:08 AM   #135
The Fonz
Our Jessica Fletcher
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Exp:
Default

Holy Christ this is intense
The Fonz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 09:08 AM   #136
CaramonLS
Retired
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction View Post
I could go on and on about the self inflicted damage First Nations do to themselves. When I worked in Northern BC, our company had to stop letting us stay on reserves because of the racism we faced... and we were hired by them to provide services that would improve their quality of lives. My roommate from university is pretty much shunned on his reserve because he "sold out" to the white man by getting educated and moving.
We had an employee who worked for us and also lived on reserve at Hobbema. She was a good employee but she faced a lot of bullying and pressure by her peers as a result of getting a job. Eventually she was jumped by 5 guys, who put her in the hospital for a for a few days all because she had a job which she wouldn't leave.

After that she turned in her resignation. Really sad story.
CaramonLS is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CaramonLS For This Useful Post:
Old 01-17-2014, 09:14 AM   #137
jammies
Basement Chicken Choker
 
jammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcNeT View Post
Hate the people, not the race.
Even better, don't hate anyone.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
jammies is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jammies For This Useful Post:
Old 01-17-2014, 09:18 AM   #138
crazy_eoj
Powerplay Quarterback
 
crazy_eoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Exp:
Default

I think it's pretty clear the reserve system is an abject failure. I think anything we can do to remove it would a benefit to everyone. Giving them private ownership of their land would be a good first step, even if incredibly difficult in practice.
crazy_eoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 09:24 AM   #139
Daradon
Has lived the dream!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Where I lay my head is home...
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_eoj View Post
I think it's pretty clear the reserve system is an abject failure. I think anything we can do to remove it would a benefit to everyone. Giving them private ownership of their land would be a good first step, even if incredibly difficult in practice.
Yeah, I think the best route probably will be a new plan, or outside the box idea, instead of trying to fix the current system. Whether or not that ever happens, ehhhh...
Daradon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 09:32 AM   #140
undercoverbrother
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaramonLS View Post
We had an employee who worked for us and also lived on reserve at Hobbema. She was a good employee but she faced a lot of bullying and pressure by her peers as a result of getting a job. Eventually she was jumped by 5 guys, who put her in the hospital for a for a few days all because she had a job which she wouldn't leave.

After that she turned in her resignation. Really sad story.
I heard and interview on how Hobbema (now known as Maskwacis) got it's name.
undercoverbrother is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:29 AM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy