I hope that with Burke at the helm, Calgary becomes a beacon in the sports community for acceptance of gay athletes, not only in the lockerroom, but on the streets and in the stands.
It seemed like a couple of years ago the Flames were moving in that direction with participation in the pride parade, but I didn't hear much after that. I really hope Burke sets that tone for the organization moving forward.
I was actually having a good chuckle last night at people getting all bent out of shape at Pylon. The guy perpetuated a positive stereotype in my mind, what's the big deal? Was anyone in the CP gay community offended?
That's a like a black dude getting all bent out of shape if someone said black dudes had big dongers. If I was black and someone said that to me I'd be all "hell yeah, baby's arm" and not all "you bigot! Take it back!"
Anyways.
Positive stereotypes are generally stupid to continue as will.
Positive stereotypes are generally stupid to continue as will.
Well someone said in the US thread that 90% of Black people will vote Democrat. Nobody jumped all over that guy.
I think Pylon got an unfair shake. I'm the opposite of a homophobic person, and I don't think it makes me discriminatory to think that the percentages of gay men in something like the NHL to be lower than that of the general population or the Screen Actors Guild. It's just a thought process based on, yes, stereotypes. But stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason and when it's impossible to get statistics because noone has ever came out all we have is stereotypes to try and guess. They dont have to be bad. Thinking that there might be less gay NHLers than ballet dancers isn't a slight at gay people or ballet or hockey.
It's not because "I like the NHL and I don't like gay people thus they can't play in my sport!" It's just speculation. A lot of the anecdotes in this thread suggest that many gay people may have left these sports in their youth due to possible discriminatory actions. And while that's not right, it would certainly affect the amount of gay people that end up at the pinnicle of the sport today.
Hopefully one day it will change. I know as a coach of 13-14 year olds, we allow them to say pretty much any bad word in the book, but as soon as any sort of discriminatory word leaves their mouth (including those against gay people) we punish them pretty harshly. Hopefully this ends up with more tolerance towards it, as we do try to preach it. We even had a situation (I wont get into details, lets just say a "shower" incident) where I actually thought about approaching the subject with a 13 year old, I wanted to assure him that if he was gay or confused in that way that it is OK, but decided it was best not to go there.
I just think pylon got jumped on when he's purely just guessing at ratios.
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When the biggest issue in this discussion is whether someone relates personal anecdotes that reinforce a stereotype with the intention of being positive, I think we have come a long way.
That being said, I can see myself sometimes putting too much emphasis on whether someone is gay and so on, albeit in a positive way. It should not matter if someone is gay or straight, and it would be ideal if it ended up that no one felt the need to categorize or label people, even in a positive sense. It's all love anyway
That being said, pylon makes one very big point - the numbers of gay men in professional sports may figure to be lower than the proportion in the whole population due to the bullying/homophobia that these men would have faced as youth, and that youth today still face. That environment, it can be argued, would be a deterrent to gay men.
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Being gay just means you are attracted to the same sex as yourself...other than that you are subject to the same range of behaviour as straight folk. And the gay/straight spectrum is a pretty big oversimplification as well.
I also believe that there are tons of people who are naturally gay but are in denial to themselves and are living straight lives.
So while some self aware people might not pursue sports that are rife with homophobia, there are plenty of people who stay in the league who don't even know that they are in the closet and would never ever reach for the knob...errr....doorknob. So I think that true number of gay people in sports is probably pretty close to the general population.
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I was actually having a good chuckle last night at people getting all bent out of shape at Pylon. The guy perpetuated a positive stereotype in my mind, what's the big deal? Was anyone in the CP gay community offended?
That's a like a black dude getting all bent out of shape if someone said black dudes had big dongers. If I was black and someone said that to me I'd be all "hell yeah, baby's arm" and not all "you bigot! Take it back!"
Anyways.
Ah yes, the old "guy not in targeted group" telling everyone why there's nothing wrong here. Excuse me if I feel your credibility in this regard is suspect.
I don't think anyone was offended by Pylon, at least I hope not, they just wanted to point out that he's perpetuating a stereotype that is not as valid as he assumes. But ya, I don't think any gay guy is going to be upset when someone tells them that gay guys dress nice or have fancy cars.
Isn't that a statistical fact based on previous voting?
Maybe, I didn't look it up. Seems about right to me. I dont care enough to look it up because I dont think it really matters which way a certain group of people tend to vote. Why do Black people vote Democrat? Because IN GENERAL Dems are more tolerant towards non-white, non-christian people than the Republicans. We dont have stats on the ratio og gayvs straight NHL players, so all we have is inferences based on stereotypes.
My point is, to infer that there is probably a smaller ratio of gay NHLers than ballet dancers based on anecdotal evidence is not discriminatory in my mind, its just an inference. But to assume that a gay person doesnt play hockey or doesnt have knowledge of hockey is discriminatory. But Ill leave that up to the gay people to decide. Personally, because I really do view everyone as equal, its not discriminatory to infer a non-existent stat based on anecdotal evidence. Just because everyone is equal in rights does not mean they have to be equal in taste or tendency. And as said before, since many were discriminated against in youth, it probably correlates to a smaller ratio at the top echelon of the sport. Its not to say that gay people cant play hockey because the game is too tough and their theyre too girly or whatever. Its just an inference based on personal knowledge.
I think most people on this site are pretty forward thinking in this regard, but that doesnt mean we cant be curios about the actual ratios and speculate on it.
Sorry for lack of punctuation, my keyboard is stuck on French, Im not sure how to change it,
I don't post as much these days as I've been forced to spend more time finishing my degree (god forbid) than browsing internet forums, but one of the first times this subject came up I made a post in regards to it. I feel like the same things get said every time this comes up and we just go round in circles.
I think it's hilarious that people still ask the question "Why don't gay players just come out?". Honestly it's putting the act in somewhat of a diminutive light. If you think coming out to your parents would be rough, imagine coming out to a group of 30 straight guys that grew up being the kind of guys that spit out derisive comments about homos in the locker room after every gym class; the same guys who made it standard fair to stare at the ground and never make eye contact in the dressing rooms; the kind of guys that made those 'homos' not even want to go change in the changeroom until everyone else left.
Then imagine coming out to not just those guys, but the tens of millions of hockey fans that watch you play the game day in and day out. The entire industry is centered around a certain 'view' of the people playing, and being gay isn't within that.
For the record, I'm gay, I play hockey and my boyfriend even gives me rides to the games. I don't tell my team that I am because it's none of their business who I go to bed with, just like it's none of mine who they do it with. If they knew, maybe some would dislike me, maybe some wouldn't. Either way it's not worth my time to tell them because CHANCES ARE it wouldn't go over well. But this is all things I've posted before.
I love that teams are promoting an accepting attitude, but promoting an accepted attitude isn't going to make it any less terrifying for any of the players out there that -are- gay. In a game where team work is everything, introducing an element of dissonance to the dressing room is asking for trouble.
People can say "Well those people not ok with it just need to get over it", but let's be honest some people just aren't ok with it. People don't change, really, and in a business of millions of dollars, it's better just to leave well enough be, and play the game you're being paid to play.
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People can say "Well those people not ok with it just need to get over it", but let's be honest some people just aren't ok with it. People don't change, really, and in a business of millions of dollars, it's better just to leave well enough be, and play the game you're being paid to play.
Great post, but the bolded is simply not true. I was homophobic in high school and am now one of the biggest supporters of equal rights you'll find. I have a buddy who's the same way, too. People do change, and it's campaigns like this that will make it come faster.
Great post, but the bolded is simply not true. I was homophobic in high school and am now one of the biggest supporters of equal rights you'll find. I have a buddy who's the same way, too. People do change, and it's campaigns like this that will make it come faster.
Yup exactly. I cringe when I look back at a post I made only a year or two ago saying it was okay to use the word ######.
I am so very happy to see this gaining steam. My only beef is in this being called "Gay Rights" or "LGBT Rights". Let's call it what it is, HUMAN rights.
This sentiment has always seemed a bit odd to me.
1: "We need human right!"
2: "We have human rights!"
1: "Not really, some humans aren't treated equally."
2: "Which ones?"
1: "I can't say because I don't like labels."
"Gay rights" is simply a more useful term than "human rights", when discussing gay rights. Human rights is a large umbrella. It's okay to want to talk about a smaller subset of the human rights, particularly when addressing deficiencies in an overall human rights program.
I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. Part 2 is tomorrow. Part 3 on Friday.
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