2013/2014 English Premier League Thread

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

By your logic, Peter Crouch should have been "done" for endorsing our robot overlords back in 2006.

Well congratulations on being the latest troll with such a stupid statement. You got a fuse missing from your box?

So ... explain exactly how you equate Peter Crouch's dance with a political gesture?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Bagor

You got a fuse missing from your box?

quoted for awesomeness!

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by moon

You don't see the difference between a political statement that supports fallen veterans and one that has been deemed anti-semetic by many?

Not sure that just because the comedian says it isn't racist makes it all good for people to use.

The poppy means different things to different people. James McClean has repeatedly refused to wear one and was even booed by his own set of supporters when he was playing for Sunderland in November 2012. You must understand that the British military occupied his hometown of Derry up until very recently, so you can hardly blame him for refusing to wear something that represents colonialism to him. Whether you agree with him or not, I think it is admirable that he is willing to take an unpopular stance for an issue he feels strongly about.

The French comedian in question is a well known critic of Israel and I would suggest that he's a flat out anti-Semite, no doubt about it. However, the false outrage over this gesture from Anelka today is hilarious. Did any of you know anything about this gesture before this morning? I would suggest not. I certainly didn't, and I spend way too much time reading political blogs.

Just how far do you guys want to go when censoring footballers? I personally don't believe in God but when someone like Steven Pienaar or Kaka scores a goal and lifts up his shirt to reveal a religious message I don't get my knickers in a twist about it. Their beliefs, however flawed they may be in my opinion, are their own and they are entitled to them.

Frank Lampard is a well known supporter of the Conservative party in the UK, and he makes no effort to hide it, and nor should he. While my views might not align with his in any way, shape or form, he's entitled to speak out about how he feels people should vote, and so am I, should I choose to do so. He's still a magnificent footballer and I don't think that his political views should reflect badly on him at all.

Bagor, I think this gesture today has about as much political motivation behind it as Peter Crouch dancing like a robot did back in 2006. None whatsoever. Have you ever heard Anelka being interviewed? He doesn't exactly strike me as a Rhodes scholar candidate, let's put it that way.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

Total goals conceded: Liverpool 21 Man City 21
Clean sheets: Liverpool 5 Man City 7
Shots conceded inside the box: Liverpool 124 Man City 94
Shots conceded outside the box: Liverpool 117 Man City 100
Headed goal attempts conceded: Liverpool 37 Man City 33
Goal attempts from set pieces conceded: Liverpool 58 Man City 39
Total crosses conceded: Liverpool 371 Man City 310
Total chances conceded: Liverpool 168 Man City 141

And those stats show the difference between a title winning side and a side that is absolutely terrible defensively? City have shown a vulnerability at the back just like every other side has. The reason I think they will go on to win is because of the qualify of their depth. Nobody else can match that.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

The poppy means different things to different people. James McClean has repeatedly refused to wear one and was even booed by his own set of supporters when he was playing for Sunderland in November 2012. You must understand that the British military occupied his hometown of Derry up until very recently, so you can hardly blame him for refusing to wear something that represents colonialism to him. Whether you agree with him or not, I think it is admirable that he is willing to take an unpopular stance for an issue he feels strongly about.

I certainly can blame him and think he is an idiot for not wearing one. There is nothing admirable about it at all. The guy is a moron.

The French comedian in question is a well known critic of Israel and I would suggest that he's a flat out anti-Semite, no doubt about it. However, the false outrage over this gesture from Anelka today is hilarious. Did any of you know anything about this gesture before this morning? I would suggest not. I certainly didn't, and I spend way too much time reading political blogs.

What false outrage?

I don't care that much just think it is an obviously stupid thing to do and in no way close to wearing a poppy on your jersey.

Just how far do you guys want to go when censoring footballers? I personally don't believe in God but when someone like Steven Pienaar or Kaka scores a goal and lifts up his shirt to reveal a religious message I don't get my knickers in a twist about it. Their beliefs, however flawed they may be in my opinion, are their own and they are entitled to them.

How is that offensive to others?

Frank Lampard is a well known supporter of the Conservative party in the UK, and he makes no effort to hide it, and nor should he. While my views might not align with his in any way, shape or form, he's entitled to speak out about how he feels people should vote, and so am I, should I choose to do so. He's still a magnificent footballer and I don't think that his political views should reflect badly on him at all.

Again how is that offensive to others?

I am not sure how far they should take it but racist salutes/signs/shirts probably is a decent place to start.

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

And those stats show the difference between a title winning side and a side that is absolutely terrible defensively? City have shown a vulnerability at the back just like every other side has. The reason I think they will go on to win is because of the qualify of their depth. Nobody else can match that.

Oh, I would agree with you on the depth part. They have about twenty players that would start for Liverpool, whereas Liverpool have maybe three that would start for City. Probably just two really - Mignolet and Suarez.

City have certainly shown vulnerability at the back but they are just so comfortable in possession. The Liverpool match two days ago was a good example - once they got the lead you knew they just weren't going to give it up. Same thing with Crystal Palace today, although they are admittedly much weaker opponents.

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by moon

I certainly can blame him and think he is an idiot for not wearing one. There is nothing admirable about it at all. The guy is a moron.
What false outrage?
I don't care that much just think it is an obviously stupid thing to do and in no way close to wearing a poppy on your jersey.
How is that offensive to others?
Again how is that offensive to others?
I am not sure how far they should take it but racist salutes/signs/shirts probably is a decent place to start.

I don't think he's an idiot for not wearing one, I admire that fact that he's willing to take a stand on an issue that is important to him. Jonathan Taylor Thomas of Home Improvement fame gave up a career in Hollywood to travel around the country giving anti-abortion speeches. Now, I'm very pro-choice myself but I certainly wouldn't call him an idiot just because I don't agree with his opinion on an issue. In fact, I admire the fact that he is so passionate and willing to take a stance on such a divisive issue purely because he really believes that he is going to save babies. I don't agree with him, but good for him.

James McClean grew up in a city where the British military raped and murdered people systematically for over a century. You know that U2 song "Sunday Bloody Sunday"? You should look up the meaning behind that song before you chastise James McClean for honouring the war dead of a occupying military force in his country.

Displaying a religious message on your shirt is in many way offensive to many people. How would a religious person feel if I were to score a goal and then reveal a message under my strip that said something like "you're an idiot for believing in Christ"? Kaka stating "I belong to Jesus".....you can't see how anyone could find that offensive? What if a footballer revealed a message that said "Heil Hitler"? Who gets to decide whose opinions are offensive and whose aren't? Just because one group may not appreciate a political message does not make it punishable.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

Bagor, I think this gesture today has about as much political motivation behind it as Peter Crouch dancing like a robot did back in 2006. None whatsoever.

Get a grip of yourself.

The first is a man doing a robot dance.
The second is a man making a gesture that is widely known in his native country as being viewed by many as offensive and anti-semetic.

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

Have you ever heard Anelka being interviewed? He doesn't exactly strike me as a Rhodes scholar candidate, let's put it that way.

Yet, you dare to refer to James MacLean as being cerebral of mind and thought and forget to consider where his manager was from at the time of the incident you refer to. And FTR the last thing Derry needs is another mouthy know all Dub pretending they understand the situation there when you probably have never been north of Drogheda.

On Saturday night the French minister for sport, Valérie Fourneyron, condemned the gesture, describing it as "disgusting", and said through her Twitter account: "Anelka's gesture is a shocking provocation, disgusting. There's no place for antisemitism and incitement to hatred on the football field."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...a-nazi-gesture

Equating a robot dance to Anelka's behaviour? Wow, you're something else.

And seriously ....And why the hell are you here under a different name? Seriously what is that all about?

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Get a grip of yourself.

The first is a man doing a robot dance.
The second is a man making a gesture that is widely known in his native country as being viewed by many as offensive and anti-semetic.

Yet, you dare to refer to James MacLean as being cerebral of mind and thought and forget to consider where his manager was from at the time of the incident you refer to. And FTR the last thing Derry needs is another mouthy know all Dub pretending they understand the situation there when you probably have never been north of Drogheda.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...a-nazi-gesture

Equating a robot dance to Anelka's behaviour? Wow, you're something else.

And seriously ....And why the hell are you here under a different name? Seriously what is that all about?

"Never been north of Drogheda"......nobody here will get that line but it got a good laugh out of me. Not a Dub but not far off, fair play to you.

Some people just like to get offended at the smallest things. I pointed out the robot dance as being as offensive as the Anelka gesture because someone choosing to get all offended about Anelka is about as mature as someone choosing to be offended by Crouchie eating his nachos.

Answer me this honestly: had you any knowledge of such a hand gesture being considered offensive before this morning? Had you any knowledge of the Nazi salute that Robin van Persie gave while playing for Arsenal four years ago?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

I don't think he's an idiot for not wearing one, I admire that fact that he's willing to take a stand on an issue that is important to him. Jonathan Taylor Thomas of Home Improvement fame gave up a career in Hollywood to travel around the country giving anti-abortion speeches. Now, I'm very pro-choice myself but I certainly wouldn't call him an idiot just because I don't agree with his opinion on an issue. In fact, I admire the fact that he is so passionate and willing to take a stance on such a divisive issue purely because he really believes that he is going to save babies. I don't agree with him, but good for him.

Jonathan Taylor Thomas is an idiot as well.

James McClean grew up in a city where the British military raped and murdered people systematically for over a century. You know that U2 song "Sunday Bloody Sunday"? You should look up the meaning behind that song before you chastise James McClean for honouring the war dead of a occupying military force in his country.

Know the song and know the whining from those from Northern Ireland, it doesn't change the fact that McClean an idiot, his reasons are stupid and far from admirable and he should wear a poppy.

And it still has nothing to do with what happened today.

Displaying a religious message on your shirt is in many way offensive to many people. How would a religious person feel if I were to score a goal and then reveal a message under my strip that said something like "you're an idiot for believing in Christ"?

They shouldn't give a crap.

Kaka stating "I belong to Jesus".....you can't see how anyone could find that offensive?

Nope. I honestly can't see how that is offensive in the least.

What if a footballer revealed a message that said "Heil Hitler"? Who gets to decide whose opinions are offensive and whose aren't? Just because one group may not appreciate a political message does not make it punishable.

That fits in my racism category and as for who gets to decide I would say society as a whole does a pretty good job of establishing what is okay or not and 99% of people who aren't crazy know what those things are.

I think most people would say the fake shirt in your hypothetical is an idiot but free to wear the shirt, making a racist salute goes beyond that.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

Answer me this honestly: had you any knowledge of such a hand gesture being considered offensive before this morning? Had you any knowledge of the Nazi salute that Robin van Persie gave while playing for Arsenal four years ago?

So as long as it is a secret Nazi salute then it is cool to use?

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by moon

So as long as it is a secret Nazi salute then it is cool to use?

He would argue that it isn't a Nazi salute at all. In fact, you're the only one who is saying that it is. There is a big difference between accusing someone of being a Nazi and accusing someone of being a critic of Israel.

[Bad Santa]

Why is JTT an idiot? Just because he doesn't agree with your beliefs? Do you consider anyone who does not agree with you an idiot? Are people not entitled to have unpopular beliefs?

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by moon

Know the song and know the whining from those from Northern Ireland, it doesn't change the fact that McClean an idiot, his reasons are stupid and far from admirable and he should wear a poppy.

Really. Did those soldiers not die for his right to refuse to wear a poppy?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

He would argue that it isn't a Nazi salute at all. In fact, you're the only one who is saying that it is. There is a big difference between accusing someone of being a Nazi and accusing someone of being a critic of Israel.

Sorry anti-semetic. Used Nazi because I read the Van Persie line before posting but it was a nice attempt to deflect from the point which is:

So its okay to use racist salutes so long as they are secret?

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

Why is JTT an idiot? Just because he doesn't agree with your beliefs? Do you consider anyone who does not agree with you an idiot? Are people not entitled to have unpopular beliefs?

Depends on the belief obviously because many different things that I could see disagreement on but I don't have much respect for people that are so anti-abortion that they feel the need to go around telling others how to live their lives. Same with the McClean views. He is an idiot as are most extreme Irish Nationalists like him.

The passionate about something when that thing is moronic is not admirable at all.

People can have unpopular beliefs all they want and I am free to think they are idiots for having them.

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by moon

Sorry anti-semetic. Used Nazi because I read the Van Persie line before posting but it was a nice attempt to deflect from the point which is:

So its okay to use racist salutes so long as they are secret?



Depends on the belief obviously because many different things that I could see disagreement on but I don't have much respect for people that are so anti-abortion that they feel the need to go around telling others how to live their lives. Same with the McClean views. He is an idiot as are most extreme Irish Nationalists like him.

The passionate about something when that thing is moronic is not admirable at all.

People can have unpopular beliefs all they want and I am free to think they are idiots for having them.

No, I don't think it is okay to use racist salutes, secret or not. The difference here is that Anelka has been pictured with this comedian before making this salute, so it isn't secret at all. He's made no attempt to hide it. If people want to interpret that as being anti-Jewish, then that is their problem. If Anelka gets fined or suspended by the FA he should take them to the European Court of Human Rights.

Absolutely you are free to think that people are idiots for having views different to your own. I like to think that I'm not that close minded, but all the power to you.

I'm about as pro-choice a guy as you are likely to find, but I certainly don't think that someone who disagrees with me on that issue is an idiot just for taking the opposite view to my own.

Was Pat Tillman an idiot for turning down millions of dollars from the Arizona Cardinals and going off to war only to get his head blown off by his own troops? Regardless of your opinions about the legitimacy of the war itself, surely you can not help but admire someone who cares so deeply for a cause that he was willing to give up so much in order to fight for something he believed in, however misguided his beliefs may have been?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

No, I don't think it is okay to use racist salutes, secret or not. The difference here is that Anelka has been pictured with this comedian before making this salute, so it isn't secret at all. He's made no attempt to hide it. If people want to interpret that as being anti-Jewish, then that is their problem. If Anelka gets fined or suspended by the FA he should take them to the European Court of Human Rights.

From what I heard/read the salute has already been deemed racist and the comedian has been fined numerous times for racism so not sure Anelka would have a real strong case in any court.

I think people interpret it as anti-semetic because it has been labeled that by authorities.

Either way it is at the very least controversial and a stupid move by Anelka, whether racist or just anti-zionist.

Was Pat Tillman an idiot for turning down millions of dollars from the Arizona Cardinals and going off to war only to get his head blown off by his own troops? Regardless of your opinions about the legitimacy of the war itself, surely you can not help but admire someone who cares so deeply for a cause that he was willing to give up so much in order to fight for something he believed in, however misguided his beliefs may have been?

Defending his country is now on par with ranting about abortions?

Of course he wasn't an idiot that was an incredible thing he did and I have nothing but the utmost respect for a guy like Pat Tillman. His beliefs weren't misguided in any way.

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by moon

From what I heard/read the salute has already been deemed racist and the comedian has been fined numerous times for racism so not sure Anelka would have a real strong case in any court.

I think people interpret it as anti-semetic because it has been labeled that by authorities.

Either way it is at the very least controversial and a stupid move by Anelka, whether racist or just anti-zionist.

Defending his country is now on par with ranting about abortions?

Of course he wasn't an idiot that was an incredible thing he did and I have nothing but the utmost respect for a guy like Pat Tillman. His beliefs weren't misguided in any way.

Well, you see now, I think Pat Tillman was an idiot for doing what he did, but I don't think it is fair for me to call you an idiot for disagreeing with me on that one. Do you get my point?

"I think people interpret it as anti-semetic because it has been labeled that by authorities."

First off, you should learn how to spell. Secondly, it is widely accepted as an anti-establishment gesture. Anelka and Malouda did the same thing years ago at Chelsea with the handcuff gesture, which I'm sure you don't remember now.

I'm still waiting for someone to defend van Persie's Nazi salute when he scored for Arsenal against Chelsea several years ago.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bad Santa

Well, you see now, I think Pat Tillman was an idiot for doing what he did, but I don't think it is fair for me to call you an idiot for disagreeing with me on that one. Do you get my point?

I get your point I just don't care about it or if you think that I am an idiot for agreeing with Pat Tillman.

First off, you should learn how to spell. Secondly, it is widely accepted as an anti-establishment gesture. Anelka and Malouda did the same thing years ago at Chelsea with the handcuff gesture, which I'm sure you don't remember now.

I am fine with my spelling thanks and am not overly worried about it on a internet message board.

No I don't remember it, care about it or really sure why I should care about it.

Am I only allowed to care about this incident if I know care about other times racist salutes were used?

I'm still waiting for someone to defend van Persie's Nazi salute when he scored for Arsenal against Chelsea several years ago.

Why would they?

Why do you keep bringing all the other stuff to try and deflect from what Anelka did?

If you don't think it was a racist gesture then fine just say that. Or as it seems, if you are fine with racist gestures being used say that.

All this other stuff is just garbage.

[Bad Santa]

Originally Posted by moon

IAm I only allowed to care about this incident if I know care about other times racist salutes were used?

Huh?

I've stated repeatedly now that I am not fine with people making racist gestures. I do not feel that Anelka made a racist gesture.