Flames assign Sven Baertschi to the Heat

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bonded

How is he nearing a bust? I think Jankowski is a lot closer to that than Sven.

11 points is not setting the world on fire, but it isn't bad production for a rookie. Were you expecting a ppg from him? I think he has shown he has top 6 talent.

He's not nearing busting. That is the typical reaction by CP to any of the Oilers top players when they are looking like crap. We look forward to another Oiler prospect busting and joining the very long and proud list of Oiler first rounders who were drafted an then fell on their face. Baertschi is no where near that, so relax.

I actually don't give a #### about Baertschi's points. I'm not a guy who doesn't focus on points. I look at how a guy plays the game, which is why I laugh in anyone's face who talks about Jankowski, because 99% of people on this board haven't seen the kid play nor know anything about him other than what the scoring summaries say. If people would invest the time to watch the kid they would see he's doing really well for the situation he is playing in. In that same way, if people would actually watch Baertshi, really focus on him during the play, they would see that he's not doing the things he needs to to be a NHL player. He's a step behind the play in the offensive zone. He's completely unaware of his responsibilities in the neutral zone and he's lost in the defensive zone. You can see his instincts are strong in making a play when he has the puck, but he doesn't understand what he has to do to make room for his linemates or win a board battle. This may be a result of over-thinking or trying to do too much, but whatever it is he is not looking good out there. If handled right, and playing with the right players the rest of the season in Abby, that should help him find that confidence and improve the areas of his game that are weak. I believe he'll bounce back, but he has a lot to learn and improve on before he comes back to the NHL in my estimation.

[jayswin]

Which returning poster is New Era, again? I know people have mentioned it, but it's escaping me.

[moon]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Which returning poster is New Era, again? I know people have mentioned it, but it's escaping me.

Eddy Beers

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by moon

Eddy Beers

Ahhh, right. He posts literally the same as he did before. Just couldn't put my finger on the name.

[Righteous1]

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Is New Era being serious, or is that just sarcasm?

No, he's completely serious. He's been beating this drum since early this summer. I treat any Baertschi related post by New Era the same way I treat any Backlund related post from WhereAreYouChrisO'Sullivan.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I do see the point New Era is trying to make. I don't quite agree with everything he stated, but Baertschi to me has NOT looked like an NHL caliber player CONSISTENTLY.

He has had a few solid games, DEFINITELY.

He is improving - both with and without the puck. Not where he should be though.

He does get lost in the defensive zone at times, and other times he makes a good play.

He is really just a great example of a kid with a high ceiling, but who just needs more time to develop. He isn't nearing bust status. He isn't 'terrible'. He is just not a consistent NHL player, and looks physically dominated out there, and hasn't found a way to make up for it.

People are freaking out that he is being sent to the AHL as some kind of terrible demotion, and that this is going to be terrible for his development. I completely disagree. The AHL is a professional league, and arguably the world's 2nd best league. It is also a wonderful development league. Let him go down there and develop.

You have to have blinders on to say he is terrible in all three zones all the time, but you also have to have blinders on to say he is good in all 3 zones and a capable NHL player.

Every player makes mistakes in the NHL. Rookies make more of them, and we can't expect a rookie to come in and be error-free. Baertschi just seems to me as more inconsistent than he should be. There is nothing wrong with not being NHL ready yet. There is no shame in being sent back to the AHL. It is not going to screw him up mentally or physically, or impair his development. Some prospects just need more time to develop, and he is going to a team that really has everything going for it, and he gets to be a big part of that. I think it is not just the right decision, but a wonderful opportunity for Baertschi to get proper time to develop.

[strombad]

Somewhere in the middle between New Era and Ashasx lies the truth about Baertschi.

He hasn't been great, he's been decent. He's shown flashes of being fantastic, followed by long stretches of insignificance.

Is he NHL ready? Eh... nah. I don't think so, but I guess that depends what you expect of him. If we took an Edmonton route and just let him play without much consequence then I'm sure he'd be fine. He could play, make his mistakes and have stretches of lackadaisical play and turn into a serviceable second liner that can be counted on for a good bit of offence and that would be that.
OR... the Flames could take their time, let him learn, teach him the level the he needs to be at before he belongs in the NHL. It doesn't matter if everyone is held to the same expectation. He needs to be held to a higher standard if people want him to produce at a higher standard.

Whether this all results in Sven learning and becoming a great player for the Flames, or being a piece in a trade, I think both parties will come out of this just fine.

It's fantasy to say that he is somehow closer to being traded now than he was two weeks ago. If he gets traded, it will be because he didn't capitalise on the chances he earned. Either way, it's not like we're dealing with Crosby, or Kane, or even a Taylor Hall type of guy. Even if we trade Sven at low value it's not going to set the franchise back a whole hell of a lot. Conversely, even if Sven reaches his full potential with the Flames, we're not getting some irreplaceable game breaker. It would just be nice to bring a guy like that up through development vs. free agency or trade.

[Pointman]

I am revisiting Baertchi benching threads now and what saddens me is that we know now, that it was simply a power struggle, not a plan to develop Sven. Hartley did not bench Baertchi to light fire under him, let him watch the play from aside to learn or anything like that. Hartley simply did not need him. Feaster, in turn, did not let Sven to be sent down because since Burke came Feaster knew he is on hot seat and his firstrounder going to minors will make him look worse in the eyes of owners, given that poor drafting was one of the accusations. Developing Sven was the last thing on their minds. There was no plan for his development. Show how disfunctional the Flames office was.

[Freeway]

Look at Lee Stempniak. Is Stempniak an all-star? No. Is he consistent? Yes. Do you notice him doing things well in all three zones most of the time? Yes. Does he single-handedly win you games? No.

Baertschi has a high ceiling. But his main issues are seemingly inconsistency and confidence, and they're probably inter-twined. Let him light up the AHL for a bit and get his swagger back.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Is New Era being serious, or is that just sarcasm?

He/she is a bit over the top sometimes IMO

[Dx54]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Look at Lee Stempniak. Is Stempniak an all-star? No. Is he consistent? Yes. Do you notice him doing things well in all three zones most of the time? Yes. Does he single-handedly win you games? No.

Baertschi has a high ceiling. But his main issues are seemingly inconsistency and confidence, and they're probably inter-twined. Let him light up the AHL for a bit and get his swagger back.

I don't know if Stempniak is good example. Consistent in what category? Points? He only has 4pts in his last 14 games. Doing things well in all 3 zones "most of the time"? Well he's a -13 (only behind Butler in that regard) so I don't know if you can define that as doing "well in all 3 zones."

You could argue that he's working hard, trying to make plays work, providing leadership, and that the stats don't speak well for itself, but they don't lie either.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I am revisiting Baertchi benching threads now and what saddens me is that we know now, that it was simply a power struggle, not a plan to develop Sven. Hartley did not bench Baertchi to light fire under him, let him watch the play from aside to learn or anything like that. Hartley simply did not need him. Feaster, in turn, did not let Sven to be sent down because since Burke came Feaster knew he is on hot seat and his firstrounder going to minors will make him look worse in the eyes of owners, given that poor drafting was one of the accusations. Developing Sven was the last thing on their minds. There was no plan for his development. Show how disfunctional the Flames office was.

I think you're right on actually. Good post.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Got dumped on back in July for saying that Baertschi was disappointing at development camp and did nothing to impress the coaches or show he was a step above every other prospect there. Said he didn't look like a guy with NHL experience or perform to the level expected. We find out management had the same opinion.

Got dumped on in September for saying that Baertschi had an attitude problem and put himself above the other prospects. Said he was not performing to the level he should and appeared to be sulking over having to participate in the rookie tournament. Said he should have been a dominant player and instead he looked like a marginal player. Find out that management fully agreed with that assessment.

Getting dumped on now for saying that Baertschi has been horrible and not a NHL player. Burke's comments all along have pretty we said just that. Management believes that or they would not have dispatched him to the minors. The kid just isn't ready and he has stood out as a player not capable of filling any role on the team. What is wrong with being honest about how a player has performed and calling a spade a spade? Baertschi is just our version of Yakupov, and that's okay. The important thing is that we develop the player properly and turn him into a good player. Letting him continue to play in the NHL as a player who is not accomplishing anything is not good for him and definitely not good for the team. I am very disappointed in Baertschi's performance and attitude this year and I have no doubts the team is as well.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

Got dumped on back in July for saying that Baertschi was disappointing at development camp and did nothing to impress the coaches or show he was a step above every other prospect there. Said he didn't look like a guy with NHL experience or perform to the level expected. We find out management had the same opinion.

Got dumped on in September for saying that Baertschi had an attitude problem and put himself above the other prospects. Said he was not performing to the level he should and appeared to be sulking over having to participate in the rookie tournament. Said he should have been a dominant player and instead he looked like a marginal player. Find out that management fully agreed with that assessment.

Getting dumped on now for saying that Baertschi has been horrible and not a NHL player. Burke's comments all along have pretty we said just that. Management believes that or they would not have dispatched him to the minors. The kid just isn't ready and he has stood out as a player not capable of filling any role on the team. What is wrong with being honest about how a player has performed and calling a spade a spade? Baertschi is just our version of Yakupov, and that's okay. The important thing is that we develop the player properly and turn him into a good player. Letting him continue to play in the NHL as a player who is not accomplishing anything is not good for him and definitely not good for the team. I am very disappointed in Baertschi's performance and attitude this year and I have no doubts the team is as well.

The bold is what people have a problem with.

Saying Baertschi hasn't played well is one thing - that is a valid opinion and while others might disagree, an intelligent conversation and debate can be had about it.

But you have continually attacked Baertschi's character and attitude. That is pure speculation and, other than his lack of desire to go to the prospects camp (which is true for a lot of guys that have already been a couple times) the evidence is overwhelmingly against your attacks.

There is intelligent debate and then there is useless, negative slander. In many peoples' opinions, you have crossed that line quite a bit with respect to Baertschi. It might not have been WhereAreYouChrisOsullivan crazy, but it has not surprisingly gotten you 'dumped on' more than once.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Look at Lee Stempniak. Is Stempniak an all-star? No. Is he consistent? Yes. Do you notice him doing things well in all three zones most of the time? Yes. Does he single-handedly win you games? No.

Baertschi has a high ceiling. But his main issues are seemingly inconsistency and confidence, and they're probably inter-twined. Let him light up the AHL for a bit and get his swagger back.

I know what you're trying to say, but Stempniak is one of the most inconsistent players in the NHL.

[ranchlandsselling]

So, when does he suit up for Abbotsford?

[868904]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But you have continually attacked Baertschi's character and attitude. That is pure speculation and, other than his lack of desire to go to the prospects camp (which is true for a lot of guys that have already been a couple times) the evidence is overwhelmingly against your attacks.
.

I haven't read all of New Era's posts, and I usually don't look at who the poster is when I read posts, but I can see where the whole attitude thing comes from.

Sven's whole development camp stance this year was just very confusing for me. I just don't understand why he did not want to be there. It's a professionally run NHL development camp, with ice booked, professional coaches, professional drills, and you get a chance to meet talented and young hockey prospects. I would think most people on here would jump at that opportunity.

For someone who was sold by Feaster as having a real passion and love for the game, I just don't understand why Sven wouldn't be thrilled or excited to go to a development camp. He supposedly used to stay 30 minutes after practice in Portland to work on his skills. So why all of sudden, would he not want to go to a camp that was specifically designed for development? It should have been right up his alley!

Maybe I just had really high hopes for Sven because Feaster sold him as this guy who was very passionate about improving and becoming a better player on his own, and yet, he prefers not to attend a camp aimed at making him a better player.

LIke i said in an earlier post, I still have high hopes for him, and I do think he's a good kid from most of his interviews and his tweets, but I was just really confused and dissapointed with his behaviour at development camp. I also thought he wasn't that bad this year. He was inconsistent no doubt, but I thought there was a stretch of games there where he was the Flames best forward, but then he'd follow that up with a stretch where he would look out of place, which is undestandable given he is still young.

Hopefully he works on the things he needs to work on in the AHL and comes back after the deadline a better player. Flames desperately need him to pan out.

[Bingo]

I almost avoid the site when Baertschi went down. Too much work.

Amazes me when the lack of information creates a vacuum that sucks in conspiracy theories; why would a coach and GM have a personal vendetta against a top prospect? Silly

The league has changed. Top offensive players rarely only play one direction or in one zone anymore, they all lead the way all over the ice. When young players join these teams they see nothing but dedication from the best, highest paid players, and they have little choice but to jump in and pull the rope from the same side.

Baertschi is being watched ...

a) on the ice
b) in the video room
c) in how he applies what he learns in the video room to the ice

They clearly have seen that he loses details when live fire begins. We've all seen it. We've also seen his skill and want to see it happen.

Baertschi isn't helped by the fact that he just happens to be inconsistent on a team that has a 19 year old that does everything right, a reclamation project that is willing to to anything, and a young defenseman that took criticism, applied it and had his game improve dramatically.

Baertschi is just more of a tough love case that is taking more time. Hartley plays the hell out of Monahan, Brodie and Colborne because they are sponges.

Add in the rumblings of Baertschi's disastisfaction about rookie camp and the Penticton thing and you have a guy that needs to be pushed to get serious about the details or he will always be in and out of the lineup.

I hope he succeeds, he's an entertaining player, but I'm willing to sacrifice the player to see four others developed in a foundational way that makes the Flames a generational powerhouse.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But you have continually attacked Baertschi's character and attitude. That is pure speculation and, other than his lack of desire to go to the prospects camp (which is true for a lot of guys that have already been a couple times) the evidence is overwhelmingly against your attacks.

Except the team said the exact same things. Keep hoping and praying there isn't a problem with Baertschi's attitude, but the reality is that the management of the team said as much. Add in he's been sent to the minors and it's all the evidence that is needed. How he reacts in Abby will determine if he has a future with Brian Burke and the Calgary Flames.

Seriously, any player that thinks because he has a whopping 25 NHL games under his belt he has the right to skip the prospects camp is ####ing delusional. The NHL still classified him as a rookie coming into this season, and so did the team. Indicating that you feel you don't need to be at the rookie camp certainly spells out that you feel you are entitled to something the club doesn't believe. When you show up and give a half-assed effort it screams attitude problem. Those are the facts, all supported by management's commentary and actions. No assassination of the kid's character on my part. He has done that with management all by himself.