How many brutal giveaways does Butler need to do.. - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

puckluck2 · 12-08-2013, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The hate is laughable.

Any other dman and people wouldn't even bat an eye. Plays like that happen countless times every game, Hemsky made a good play on his backhand to keep the puck in.

Butler needed to make a stronger play but other dmen made just as "brutal" plays to clear even earlier in the same sequence.

Butler is what he is, a 5/6 d-man that can be serviceable but in over his head in top 4 minutes.

Something about this fanbase and the constant need for a whipping boy though.

Yeah, I mean there is no correlation with us hating Butler and Butler having the worst +/- of all 200 or so defencemen in the league. All just blind hate.

Igster · 12-08-2013, 01:13 AM

But guys...Butler = Top Draft Pick.

SuperMatt18 · 12-08-2013, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Yeah, I mean there is no correlation with us hating Butler and Butler having the worst +/- of all 200 or so defencemen in the league. All just blind hate.

And everybody calls +\- a flawed stat....until it can be used to trash the Oilers or Chris Butler.

Butler has been on the ice for a whopping 3 more ES goals against than TJ Brodie and 2 less then Dennis Wideman.

Another fun stat is that giveaway machine Chris Butler has two fewer giveaways then TJ Brodie, albieit while playing a much less risky offensive game with less reward.

Which leads to the real issue that is he has only been on the ice for 15 ES GF, which really is a laughable number. Really some bad luck to be on the ice for so few goals for. Also even weirder since he has the same amount of ES points as TJ Brodie.

Butler, Gio, and Brodie are also relied upon for the majority of defensive zone faceoffs with all 3 sporting a sub 40% offensive zone start and for a non-offensive guy he has a decent offensive zone finish percentage of 47% compared to his 40% start (+7).

I'm not saying Butler is a star. He is a #5 dman (6/7 on a contender) that is prone to mistakes but for the most part plays an alright game and can cover up if needed in the case of injuries.

The issue I have is with the fans that trash him for every little thing, give him no credit, and call him an AHL dman.

It is blind hate and he has been a scapegoat since the trade since fans were never happy with the return and have blamed him.

stamps · 12-08-2013, 02:00 AM

I agree.... singling out Butler is kinda annoying ..... this team is a work in progress , and that includes Chris Butler ....

Frank MetaMusil · 12-08-2013, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And everybody calls +\- a flawed stat....until it can be used to trash the Oilers or Chris Butler.

Butler has been on the ice for a whopping 3 more ES goals against than TJ Brodie and 2 less then Dennis Wideman.

Another fun stat is that giveaway machine Chris Butler has two fewer giveaways then TJ Brodie, albieit while playing a much less risky offensive game with less reward.

Which leads to the real issue that is he has only been on the ice for 15 ES GF, which really is a laughable number. Really some bad luck to be on the ice for so few goals for. Also even weirder since he has the same amount of ES points as TJ Brodie.

Butler, Gio, and Brodie are also relied upon for the majority of defensive zone faceoffs with all 3 sporting a sub 40% offensive zone start and for a non-offensive guy he has a decent offensive zone finish percentage of 47% compared to his 40% start (+7). Brodie has 10 more points and just 3 more SOG.

I'm not saying Butler is a star. He is a #5 dman (6/7 on a contender) that is prone to mistakes but for the most part plays an alright game and can cover up if needed in the case of injuries.

The issue I have is with the fans that trash him for every little thing, give him no credit, and call him an AHL dman.

It is blind hate and he has been a scapegoat since the trade since fans were never happy with the return and have blamed him.

Jesus, another one of Butler's relatives posts on CP....

Butler is nowhere near a contending team's roster man. Contending teams don't have players who make the mistakes he does. He tied a modern day record with a -7 in a 9-0 blowout. TJ Brodie was even in that game.

The stats that matter are wins and losses. Butler contributes much more to losses and backbreaking mistakes than he does to winning. Since you are checking stats, how many game winners does Butler have vs. Brodie? Where do you think he deserves credit? The team sucked infinitely worse with Gio out and Butler having to play some of his minutes.

cal_guy · 12-08-2013, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Jesus, another one of Butler's relatives posts on CP....

Butler is nowhere near a contending team's roster man. Contending teams don't have players who make the mistakes he does. He tied a modern day record with a -7 in a 9-0 blowout. TJ Brodie was even in that game.

The stats that matter are wins and losses. Butler contributes much more to losses and backbreaking mistakes than he does to winning. Since you are checking stats, how many game winners does Butler have vs. Brodie? Where do you think he deserves credit? The team sucked infinitely worse with Gio out and Butler having to play some of his minutes.

Brodie has 3 GWG in his career, Butler has 1.

cKy · 12-08-2013, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The coach thinks he's the best option for those minutes. Far more plausible

When did you get hired by the Flames?

Butler is fricken terrible and deserving of a benching/demotion/trade

badradio · 12-08-2013, 03:57 AM

I'm not one for conspiracy theories or any of that BS, but when I see Butler out there with 2min to go I start to wonder... Even a PK with the game on the line, we send Butler out there.... the guy is -15... Why in the world would we put him out there? It's all shady to me, and frustrating beyond belief..

cal_guy · 12-08-2013, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badradio

I'm not one for conspiracy theories or any of that BS, but when I see Butler out there with 2min to go I start to wonder... Even a PK with the game on the line, we send Butler out there.... the guy is -15... Why in the world would we put him out there? It's all shady to me, and frustrating beyond belief..

The guy also lead the team in PK minutes in a game where they didn't give up a goal.

Frank MetaMusil · 12-08-2013, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The guy also lead the team in PK minutes in a game where they didn't give up a goal.

Here are some damning stats. Butler has been on the ice for 15 of the Flames 78 goals for (mostly ES as Hartley does not use him on the PP) and 41 of the Flames 98 GA.

I'd say the closest comparable is Jeff Petry.

Phil Russell · 12-08-2013, 08:01 AM

Kari Eloranta reborn. Does a lot of thinks OK, skates well, but his giveaways have a tragic tendency to end up in the back of his own net and the timing of his giveaways absolutely sucks. An "Elorantesque" recipe for whipping-boy.

FBI · 12-08-2013, 08:21 AM

He's -16 now. It's butler vs yakupov (-17) for the league lead. It's going to be a tight battle to the finish by the end of the regular season!

Quote:

Originally Posted by badradio

I'm not one for conspiracy theories or any of that BS, but when I see Butler out there with 2min to go I start to wonder... Even a PK with the game on the line, we send Butler out there.... the guy is -15... Why in the world would we put him out there? It's all shady to me, and frustrating beyond belief..

FAN · 12-08-2013, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I'm not saying Butler is a star. He is a... (6/7 on a contender) that is prone to mistakes...

The issue I have is with the fans that trash him for every little thing, give him no credit, and call him an AHL dman.

It is blind hate and he has been a scapegoat since the trade since fans were never happy with the return and have blamed him.

You have an issue with fans calling Butler an AHL dman when you yourself think he's possibly a 7th Dman on a contender? You're basically saying that the only reason Butler is an everyday defenseman in the NHL is because he plays for a team that isn't a contender. Perhaps you prefer fans calling a fringe NHL defenseman instead of an AHL defenseman?

kipperfan · 12-08-2013, 09:56 AM

Horrible player, seemingly getting worse all the time. No offence, but anyone defending him has to either be related to the guy somehow or just playing devils advocate to get a rise out of people on this board, because he IS that bad. Anders Eriksson is an apt comparison, though at least Eriksson provided some offence on occasion. If given the choice, I take Erikkson (at the same age) over Butler everyday of the week.

In closing, no chance Butler is anywhere near the top 6 of a contending team, he would be AHL fodder for 60-70% of the teams in this league, IMO.

Gaskal · 12-08-2013, 10:08 AM

Smid needs to krazy glue Butler's pants to the bench and at every intermission they all disperse to the locker room, everyone giving him a pat on the back and a "Attaboy Butts!" while he just sits there.

Lil Pedro · 12-08-2013, 10:58 AM

O'l Buttsy!

Bertuzzied · 12-08-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And everybody calls +\- a flawed stat....until it can be used to trash the Oilers or Chris Butler.

Butler has been on the ice for a whopping 3 more ES goals against than TJ Brodie and 2 less then Dennis Wideman.

Another fun stat is that giveaway machine Chris Butler has two fewer giveaways then TJ Brodie, albieit while playing a much less risky offensive game with less reward.

Which leads to the real issue that is he has only been on the ice for 15 ES GF, which really is a laughable number. Really some bad luck to be on the ice for so few goals for. Also even weirder since he has the same amount of ES points as TJ Brodie.

Butler, Gio, and Brodie are also relied upon for the majority of defensive zone faceoffs with all 3 sporting a sub 40% offensive zone start and for a non-offensive guy he has a decent offensive zone finish percentage of 47% compared to his 40% start (+7).

I'm not saying Butler is a star. He is a #5 dman (6/7 on a contender) that is prone to mistakes but for the most part plays an alright game and can cover up if needed in the case of injuries.

The issue I have is with the fans that trash him for every little thing, give him no credit, and call him an AHL dman.

It is blind hate and he has been a scapegoat since the trade since fans were never happy with the return and have blamed him.

Blah blah blah. You say he is a 5/6 guy but yet our idiot coach keeps pairing him up with Brodie and Giordano making him a 1/2 3/4 guy all year. Which means he is playing way over his head all year. which means he has been sucking all year.

Oh except for maybe the first 5 games of the year where we went 3-1-1 with him and SOB in the 3rd pairing.

I've said it before Butler doesn't deserve all the hate. Sutter and Hartley have put him in a position to fail, and to fail spectacularly for all of us to see.

Bertuzzied · 12-08-2013, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI

He's -16 now. It's butler vs yakupov (-17) for the league lead. It's going to be a tight battle to the finish by the end of the regular season!

We play Boston on Tuesday. Butler maybe able to hit windchill enabled numbers after that game.....

Bertuzzied · 12-08-2013, 11:15 AM

Ok Butler defenders.... get on your keyboards. This is the most accurate description of Butlersoft. haha Gio is in there protecting our goalie. Even brittle Backlund is in there fighting for his life!.... hehe. Stempniak who got bertuzzied last game and lost teeth is wading to jump in.
.......and then you have Butlersoft. Standing to the side slow dancing with Eberle not wanting to break a nail. Not only that, he IS the biggest non-goalie on the ice!! Mind effing bottling! and him cowering away from Perron after he ran Berra was laughable. This isn't a 6-7 dman in the NHL, this is a 5/6 dman in the AHL.

Rollin22x · 12-08-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And everybody calls +\- a flawed stat....until it can be used to trash the Oilers or Chris Butler.

Butler has been on the ice for a whopping 3 more ES goals against than TJ Brodie and 2 less then Dennis Wideman.

Another fun stat is that giveaway machine Chris Butler has two fewer giveaways then TJ Brodie, albieit while playing a much less risky offensive game with less reward.

Which leads to the real issue that is he has only been on the ice for 15 ES GF, which really is a laughable number. Really some bad luck to be on the ice for so few goals for. Also even weirder since he has the same amount of ES points as TJ Brodie.

Butler, Gio, and Brodie are also relied upon for the majority of defensive zone faceoffs with all 3 sporting a sub 40% offensive zone start and for a non-offensive guy he has a decent offensive zone finish percentage of 47% compared to his 40% start (+7).

I'm not saying Butler is a star. He is a #5 dman (6/7 on a contender) that is prone to mistakes but for the most part plays an alright game and can cover up if needed in the case of injuries.

The issue I have is with the fans that trash him for every little thing, give him no credit, and call him an AHL dman.

It is blind hate and he has been a scapegoat since the trade since fans were never happy with the return and have blamed him.

The problem with comparing butler to those guys is that they have a lot more upside to their game than butler. Butlers first choice is to shoot it out of the zone where Brodie and Wideman can and will typically make a move that frees up ice and time. Butler tries to skate the puck up the boards with his head down and is easily stripped of the puck. Butler has a place on this team. It's just not in the last minute with a one goal lead.
I need to watch a replay. Where was he after the mistake?