Most of my friends are the political, activist, or artsy types. The ones I would imagine would care about Mandelas passing. Nothing. I was beginning to wonder why I don't use FB much. I know why now....
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Most of my friends are the political, activist, or artsy types. The ones I would imagine would care about Mandelas passing. Nothing. I was beginning to wonder why I don't use FB much. I know why now....
Oh god, really? Mine's got a lot of political and artsy types too and there's lots of Mandela and there were only a few Paul Walker posts. How depressing.
Oh god, really? Mine's got a lot of political and artsy types too and there's lots of Mandela and there were only a few Paul Walker posts. How depressing.
Yeah, yeah it is.
Back on topic... I remember finding out about Nelson Mandela in the second grade. We had a little girl who lived in S. Africa before coming to Canada. I remember hearing about the good things he did and never really learned about the other side of the coin until a few years ago. I still think he is a great person. I always have.
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Its just too bad that somebody had to put Rob Anders picture in the thread.
I disagree. It is timely and relevant. While the world honours Mandela, it is important to remember that Anders, disgracefully, was the only MP to oppose giving the man honourary Canadian citizenship. Anders is an embarrassment.
Two things are important when discussing Mandela's legacy, and they are that the violent acts organized and perpetrated by him were and should be seen as acts of terror and violence.
The counter point, however, is that South Africa at the time was one of the most brutal and oppressive places on earth, committing wanton violence and terror of their own, not just against Blacks in their own borders, but also as international terrorists throughout Africa and the Indian Ocean.
It's so much more than a struggle for equality. It's armed resistance against violent tyranny and enslavement.
Dangers of any personality cult are in completely, and often forcefully, dismissing person's past wrongdoings on the way to power. This happened with both Lenin's and Stalin's cults in the former USSR and with Mao's cult in China. Those who were brave enough (or stupid enough) to point to Lenin's, Stalin's or Mao's murderous orders resulting in deaths of millions, were thrown in jails or killed; and the remaining millions of people, turned into herd by the government propaganda, cheered ecstatically.
Mandela's biography, like any political leader's biography has been marred by controversy. He was sentenced and jailed for his terrorist activities, yes, killings. There were numerous evidences of his wife being involved in horrible things, like sadistic torturing of his political enemies and, yes, killings. These definitely were serious issues. However; Mandela was able to transform his extreme views to the virtues of non-violent protest and make one of the biggest in history peaceful transformations from the oppressive regime to a democracy possible. This is where his real legacy is to the South Africans and to the world, as an example.
Some have compared Arafat to Mandela, calling them both freedom fighters. I find that preposterous. Arafat had never had anything but hatred for Jews in his heart motivating his political views and actions, while Mandela had demonstrated true love for all people in the second half of his life and for that, and only for that, he should be revered. Completely forgetting and dismissing his past as "necessary evil" is wrong.
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[/B]Some have compared Arafat to Mandela, calling them both freedom fighters. I find that preposterous. Arafat had never had anything but hatred for Jews in his heart motivating his political views and actions, while Mandela had demonstrated true love for all people in the second half of his life and for that, and only for that, he should be revered. Completely forgetting and dismissing his past as "necessary evil" is wrong.
Something to think about.
This sounds exactly like the talking points presented about Mandela in the 70s and 80s. "Communist terrorist" who "hates white Afrikkaners". Dismiss Arafat for other reasons if you'd like, but don't fall back on these mass repeated tropes.
You're doing history a terrible disservice by dismissing Mandela's life prior to his release from prison, as if a man chooses violence freely and abandons it just as freely.
As late as 1988, and indeed probably for the remainder of his life, Nelson Mandela knew the importance of violence as a tool for political change, and refused to abandon or renounce it, not while in the name of the people the SA government perpetuated violence of it's own.
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As late as 1988, and indeed probably for the remainder of his life, Nelson Mandela knew the importance of violence as a tool for political change, and refused to abandon or renounce it, not while in the name of the people the SA government perpetuated violence of it's own.
I believe that forgetting and dismissing controversial actions is the biggest disservice to history. Mandela has never apologized for the violent part of his life. I did not study enough details of the SA history to judge that stance as justified or unjustified. All I am saying, it should not be dismissed or forgotten as insignificant or forgivable automatically.
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I believe that forgetting and dismissing controversial actions is the biggest disservice to history. Mandela has never apologized for the violent part of his life. I did not study enough details of the SA history to judge that stance as justified or unjustified. All I am saying, it should not be dismissed or forgotten as insignificant or forgivable automatically.
Just want everyone to know that I love Nelson Mandela.
I think you should forgive him.
He forgive us for putting him in prison for 30 years.
I believe that forgetting and dismissing controversial actions is the biggest disservice to history. Mandela has never apologized for the violent part of his life. I did not study enough details of the SA history to judge that stance as justified or unjustified. All I am saying, it should not be dismissed or forgotten as insignificant or forgivable automatically.
Apologize?
Do we expect apologies from Jewish resistors of nazi ghettoization who firebombed the Lustgarten?
This is what I mean by dismissing Mandela's view of the role of violence.
Violence was necessary and effective, and I doubt he had any regrets about it. It is unfortunate that children died as a result of those attacks, but it's a small price to pay for the liberation of millions of people from centuries of race based violence and oppression.
Violence is an integral part of the struggle for black overthrow of a segregated society in South Africa. That is an important historical lesson, not something to be used as a detractor.
Mandela did believe in using violence as a tool, however in the face of the over the top apartheid and incredible violence that came from that government and its repressive laws it becomes understandable.
However Mandela made up for it in spades (no racist terms intended) by attempting to reconcile the blacks and whites in South Africa after the Apartheid governance ended.
His ex-wife Winnie though, she was a bit of a freaking monster.
And who cares about Rob Anders and his viewpoints, even to a conservative like me he's a joke and pitiful.
Can we politely #### right off with Rob Anders in this thread?
Why?
It's a thread on a hockey message board. This isn't sacred ground, and it is on topic. Most of us live in Calgary, and this cretin represents about 15% of the population of the city, and he's been doing it for 17 years.
He is an embarrassment to both the city and the country. People who vote for him should be reminded of that every time his shameful name comes up. One day they might figure it out. I doubt they ever will, but there is always hope.
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