Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Posted this in the GDT, but thought it might fit here too.

From Roger Millions Twitter feed:



Commence the hyperbole and vitriol...

Can we fire Roger Millions instead? The guy has been posting a lot of inflammatory stuff around Sven making things worse.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Yamer

From Roger Millions Twitter feed:

Personally, I find Millions to be a poor reporter. He throws out bits like that and then never bothers to follow-up and actually make it informative. It comes across as gossip not news.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Posted this in the GDT, but thought it might fit here too.

From Roger Millions Twitter feed:



Commence the hyperbole and vitriol...

Seems the coaching staff saw the same things About Baertschi I did during the last game. He was hustling, but wasn't making the right plays you expect from a NHL player. Not surprised to hear he's possibly going to get another night in the press box. He needs to make better decisions with and without the puck.

[Enoch Root]

Not a Hartley hater, and you can't change the coach every time you disagree with something, or the team loses.

However, if Millions is right and Hartley has reached a peak of frustration with Baertschi, and it's one or the other, bye bye Hartley as far as I am concerned.

[Yamer]

I think there's far more to the story than we're privy to.

Pure speculation, but perhaps Sven has some entitlement issues and a bit of an attitude about being held accountable. While on the surface it does appear that he is being singled out, there has to be some underlying problems that can't all be laid at Hartley's feet.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I think there's far more to the story than we're privy to.

Pure speculation, but perhaps Sven has some entitlement issues and a bit of an attitude about being held accountable. While on the surface it does appear that he is being singled out, there has to be some underlying problems that can't all be laid at Hartley's feet.

All of the evidence so far points to Hartley not being a fan.

Speculating, and making up excuses seems pretty pointless. The fact of the matter is that Hartley gets asked about this - grilled on occasion - pretty much daily, and yet nothing else has come to light, either from him or the player.

But whatever, speculate away.

[Badgers Nose]

I don't like the way Sven plays either. He never finishes checks, makes bad pass decisions.

He has a lot to learn.

It's blown out of proportion though, because he readily admits he can be better.

IMO it would be better if they brought a youngster up to fill his spot rather than a short term plug like Jackman.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well this will eventually come to a head one way or another. Just have to wait and see. It's clear though Sven's a whipping boy. It's not like a lot of the other top 6 forwards haven't made just as many mistakes or more over the past few weeks.

Even the guys on the fan that try to be as politically correct as possible are having a tough time trying to defend what it going on and why Sven is always the guy paying the price. They are even accusing him of playing favorites.

I like that Hartley is working the guys hard, and I don't even mind him expecting alot from Sven, but he shouldn't be expecting MORE from Sven than he does from Hudler, Cammy, or any other player.

At least Baertschi was even (plus/minus-wise) on Saturday.

[browna]

Posted this in the GDT, this is from Cruickshank and the Hearld GD write up.

Likely what Millions was getting at. Plus, he's around the team daily, so you can connect dots from his open ended posts as opposed to criticizing the deliverer, I doubt he'd be making stuff up.

2. BAERTSCHI OUT? — As the Flames ran through their lines Sunday, LW Sven Baertschi, the morning after operating on the top unit, was passed over more than once. A couple of shifts on the fourth line, a couple of shifts on the bench. Should he sit, it marks the kid’s fourth scratch. Not that Hartley fears backlash. “Some of you guys think Sven is Rocket Richard,” he groused Sunday. Later, talking about Monday’s challenge, Hartley noted: “Big team. Loud building. Should be fun. It’s going to be a game for men. There won’t be any room for kids out there.”

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

People can make the "weak roster" argument for as long as it suits their argument but it's a results oriented business and he has the worst winning percentage of any Flames head coach and IMO this roster is better than some of the trash that was iced during the young guns years. You need only to look back at some of those rosters for firm confirmation.

I would rather see a Lemaire type coach that is going to get a bunch of plugs playing solid team defense and being competitive on most nights than the river hockey approach of Hartley that looks very similar to the program they are running up north.

My biggest beef is that he never got this job on merit in the first place. I can't stand that he was hired because he's Feaster's buddy. We are stuck with him as the Flames head coach not because he was the best candidate for the job but because he's the godfather of Feaster's kids. It's the wrong way to operate a professional sports franchise and the fact that the two are so close makes it impossible for the GM to be objective when evaluating his coach. The optics are just as awful of the team up north that we often mock. I don't believe this team can move forward until one or both of Feaster/Hartley is removed.

Yeah these are good points.

The same logic used on players should be used on coaches; opportunity

Ward is an excellent coach. I would like to see him develop along with the kids.

Hartley did nothing with a young talented Atlanta team - I see parallels.

With Burke here, I feel better about what might happen if Feaster was gone.

IMO its going to happen the day after the Cup finals. Feaster is out, Hartley is out and Burke puts his guys in either taking over GM or keeping Weisbroad in that position.

I'd wager once that happens Weisbroad becomes the next Ken Holland.

But right now he needs the Flames to suck. So expect status quo.

[Poe969]

If he views Sven as a kid, he should be sent down. He'll do better either on a team where he can dominate or on another team at this point.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

At least Baertschi was even (plus/minus-wise) on Saturday.

Hard not to be even when you ride the pine.

[JobHopper]

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

Hard not to be even when you ride the pine.

He still played over 17 minutes which isn't really riding the pine.

[Duke43]

Sven does have problems no doubt. However pointing him out as being responsible for the first goal is one thing, but there were two other goals scored with no similar accountability issue. On either the second or third, Wideman through the puck behind the net without looking to see who would be the recipient and directly to an Oiler and within 10 seconds that puck was in the net. For being a number one defender, he has many more gafs every game than most. In the game against Dallas, he and Jamie Benn both screened Berra and a goal was scored. He could have played defence on that occasion and attempted to move Benn out, but no he stood there like a.....

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

Hard not to be even when you ride the pine.

?????????? 17:09 - 5th most ice time of Flame's forwards.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by JobHopper

He still played over 17 minutes which isn't really riding the pine.

17 minutes over the entire game, maybe. In the 3rd, though? I'd be shocked if he had more than 4 shifts.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by browna

Posted this in the GDT, this is from Cruickshank and the Hearld GD write up.

Likely what Millions was getting at. Plus, he's around the team daily, so you can connect dots from his open ended posts as opposed to criticizing the deliverer, I doubt he'd be making stuff up.

2. BAERTSCHI OUT? — As the Flames ran through their lines Sunday, LW Sven Baertschi, the morning after operating on the top unit, was passed over more than once. A couple of shifts on the fourth line, a couple of shifts on the bench. Should he sit, it marks the kid’s fourth scratch. Not that Hartley fears backlash. “Some of you guys think Sven is Rocket Richard,” he groused Sunday. Later, talking about Monday’s challenge, Hartley noted: “Big team. Loud building. Should be fun. It’s going to be a game for men. There won’t be any room for kids out there.”

Then don't let your freaking big men play 4 to 7 minutes a game if you think Jackman or McGrattan can play better than the young man Baertschi.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by browna

Posted this in the GDT, this is from Cruickshank and the Hearld GD write up.

Likely what Millions was getting at. Plus, he's around the team daily, so you can connect dots from his open ended posts as opposed to criticizing the deliverer, I doubt he'd be making stuff up.

2. BAERTSCHI OUT? — As the Flames ran through their lines Sunday, LW Sven Baertschi, the morning after operating on the top unit, was passed over more than once. A couple of shifts on the fourth line, a couple of shifts on the bench. Should he sit, it marks the kid’s fourth scratch. Not that Hartley fears backlash. “Some of you guys think Sven is Rocket Richard,” he groused Sunday. Later, talking about Monday’s challenge, Hartley noted: “Big team. Loud building. Should be fun. It’s going to be a game for men. There won’t be any room for kids out there.”

So now our coach is insulting players in the media.

Awesome.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

All of the evidence so far points to Hartley not being a fan.

Speculating, and making up excuses seems pretty pointless. The fact of the matter is that Hartley gets asked about this - grilled on occasion - pretty much daily, and yet nothing else has come to light, either from him or the player.

But whatever, speculate away.

Well, what are we left to discuss then? What we can see and what we are given? That makes it incredibly difficult to have a diverse conversation.

Neither Sven nor Hartley are going to let us in on the level that I think we all desire. That's just the way this particular 'game' is played. I agree that all the evidence points to "Hartley not being a fan", but what, exactly, isn't he a fan of? It can't be effort, as I see Sven trying out there on the ice. A complete game? I can see that, but the kid is still, well...a kid...with a certain skill set. Baertschi has been nothing special this season, and personally I haven't been that impressed, but it's still odd to see him sitting in the press box while other players aren't living up to their role either.

There's more to this, there has to be. All we can do is propose ideas, speculate, and make educated guesses until the truth can come to light. I wouldn't be so dismissive of that aspect of discussion.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Well, what are we left to discuss then? What we can see and what we are given? That makes it incredibly difficult to have a diverse conversation.

Neither Sven nor Hartley isn't going to let us in on the level that I think we all desire. That's just the way this particular 'game' is played. I agree that all the evidence points to "Hartley not being a fan", but what, exactly, isn't he a fan of? It can't be effort, as I see Sven trying out there on the ice. A complete game? I can see that, but the kid is still, well...a kid...with a certain skill set. Baertschi has been nothing special this season, and personally I haven't been that impressed, but it's still odd to see him sitting in the press box while other players aren't living up to their role either.

There's more to this, there has to be. All we can do is propose ideas, speculate, and make educated guesses until the truth can come to light. I wouldn't be so dismissive of that aspect of discussion.

There is plenty to discuss.

Hartley has made multiple comments. He gets asked about it all the time.

What I am saying is discuss that.