Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team?

[dissentowner]

Anybody who would argue Gilbert was better than Hartley needs a serious head check. Hartley has won a Cup and took an abysmal team overseas to a championship. Where is Gilbert now? Imagine what numbers Iggy would have put up and what the Flames might have accomplished had Gilbert never chased Savard out of town. Button and Gilbert set the Flames back years.

[FlamesAddiction]

The results we have are a product of the roster we have. This is clearly (in my opinion) the weakest team the Flames have ever iced. There isn't a coach in the league that would be getting better results. And several would probably have this team dead last.

This season is all about player development, so as long as young players are either improving or being whipped into shape, then standings don't matter. I'd also rather see a coach like Hartley that lets the reins out a little. Presumably Feaster/Burke will improve the roster over the next few seasons, and if the results don't improve, then I would worry about coaching. Right now though, it is pretty far down the list of things the worry about.

[Erick Estrada]

People can make the "weak roster" argument for as long as it suits their argument but it's a results oriented business and he has the worst winning percentage of any Flames head coach and IMO this roster is better than some of the trash that was iced during the young guns years. You need only to look back at some of those rosters for firm confirmation.

I would rather see a Lemaire type coach that is going to get a bunch of plugs playing solid team defense and being competitive on most nights than the river hockey approach of Hartley that looks very similar to the program they are running up north.

My biggest beef is that he never got this job on merit in the first place. I can't stand that he was hired because he's Feaster's buddy. We are stuck with him as the Flames head coach not because he was the best candidate for the job but because he's the godfather of Feaster's kids. It's the wrong way to operate a professional sports franchise and the fact that the two are so close makes it impossible for the GM to be objective when evaluating his coach. The optics are just as awful of the team up north that we often mock. I don't believe this team can move forward until one or both of Feaster/Hartley is removed.

[Poe969]

well who knows, maybe Hartley's goal is a high draft pick... In that case, he's doing a bang up job but if he's actually trying to win games, he's terrible.

[CliffFletcher]

Whoever's coaching the Flames at this stage is almost certain to be the fall guy when the Flames finish out of the playoffs for three or four seasons in a row. May as well be Hartley. At least he has a positive attitude and seems to work well with others.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by clifffletcher

whoever's coaching the flames at this stage is almost certain to be the fall guy when the flames finish out of the playoffs for three or four seasons in a row. May as well be hartley. At least he has a positive attitude and seems to work well with people he likes and older players.

fyp

[ricardodw]

I think that Hartley is going a good job with the 6 24 and under players that are on the Flames roster.

I am very disappointed in how their development was stunted against the Oilers. They all got a lesson on be very careful who you hit because if they don't like it you are on your own. (Stempniak-Ferrence)

I think that part of the problem is the lack of anger that McGrattan takes into his role and that Hartley does not want to upset his delicate psyche.

It would not have ruined the Flames season to have a Flame 1) lining up next to Ferrence and offering to knock out some of his teeth. 2) Grabbing RNH or Eberle when Ferrence was on the Ice and rag-dolling him Ferrence style.

I would like to see what would happen if Ferrence grabs Williams on LA or Roy on St.L. or Lupul on the Leafs.

I expect that he would be in for a considerably more challenging evening then he was against the Flames.

Part of it the Flames roster, but it seems that Hartley does not have a high priority on all for one and one for all.

[wingmaker]

Oh my lord. I am not a Hartley enthusiast by any means but the anger and vitriol over a coach going through the process of a rebuild is WAY ridiculous. Posters on this board are happy to laugh at how badly the Oilers have managed things with a continuous coaching carousel and then want the Flames to replace Hartley for no good reason. He has been fine. He has the team working hard, he is holding the young players accountable, and he is preaching a winning atmosphere. What else can a coach in this situation do? People bitch and moan about him benching Sven and then on Saturday Sven blows coverage in a dead simple hockey play, leading to the Oilers first goal, and after the game everyone wants the coach fired because the team lost the game. News flash, the line combinations are not the difference between the Flames winning and losing and young players need to be sat so that they understand what is expected of them.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

People can make the "weak roster" argument for as long as it suits their argument but it's a results oriented business and he has the worst winning percentage of any Flames head coach and IMO this roster is better than some of the trash that was iced during the young guns years. You need only to look back at some of those rosters for firm confirmation.

I would rather see a Lemaire type coach that is going to get a bunch of plugs playing solid team defense and being competitive on most nights than the river hockey approach of Hartley that looks very similar to the program they are running up north.

My biggest beef is that he never got this job on merit in the first place. I can't stand that he was hired because he's Feaster's buddy. We are stuck with him as the Flames head coach not because he was the best candidate for the job but because he's the godfather of Feaster's kids. It's the wrong way to operate a professional sports franchise and the fact that the two are so close makes it impossible for the GM to be objective when evaluating his coach. The optics are just as awful of the team up north that we often mock. I don't believe this team can move forward until one or both of Feaster/Hartley is removed.

1) It is a rebuild.

2) The hot trash teams back in the 90's were better than this one. Flames NEVER finished lower than 6th last, even with rookie coaches who proved themselves to be horrible. This team is LESS talented and LESS well-put together than any team of that era.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

Oh my lord. I am not a Hartley enthusiast by any means but the anger and vitriol over a coach going through the process of a rebuild is WAY ridiculous. Posters on this board are happy to laugh at how badly the Oilers have managed things with a continuous coaching carousel and then want the Flames to replace Hartley for no good reason. He has been fine. He has the team working hard, he is holding the young players accountable, and he is preaching a winning atmosphere. What else can a coach in this situation do? People bitch and moan about him benching Sven and then on Saturday Sven blows coverage in a dead simple hockey play, leading to the Oilers first goal, and after the game everyone wants the coach fired because the team lost the game. News flash, the line combinations are not the difference between the Flames winning and losing and young players need to be sat so that they understand what is expected of them.

I totally agree with this. We should stick to the plan for this season, see how everything pans out. Once the work ethic stops, bring in some of those youngsters from the Heat to pick it up again. If that means benching some of the highest salary players, then so be it. The work ethic stops that will be our problem. Playing as individuals instead of working as a team and sticking to the system, then changes should come.

And the only changes that should occur are moving players up from the farm and or at the deadline trading guys for high picks, no 4th or 5th draft picks. 1st and 2nd rounders only, IMO.

[troutman]

Hartley has them playing harder and together, better than any Flames coach since Darryl. I hope he gets to coach this team during and after the rebuild. Continuity is key with many successful franchises.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

I totally agree with this. We should stick to the plan for this season, see how everything pans out. Once the work ethic stops, bring in some of those youngsters from the Heat to pick it up again. If that means benching some of the highest salary players, then so be it. The work ethic stops that will be our problem. Playing as individuals instead of working as a team and sticking to the system, then changes should come.

And the only changes that should occur are moving players up from the farm and or at the deadline trading guys for high picks, no 4th or 5th draft picks. 1st and 2nd rounders only, IMO.

Not sure if you watched the two games prior to Edmonton, but they were probably our two worst games in terms of "work ethic" that the Flames have played all year.

Not that the effort against Edmonton was too much better.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by troutman

Hartley has them playing harder and together, better than any Flames coach since Darryl. I hope he gets to coach this team during and after the rebuild. Continuity is key with many successful franchises.

No he doesn't. I think too many fans are looking at what he did in the first few games. Sure, then they were playing great but to say they're playing hard and/or tough now is a joke. They really aren't playing better either, if they were they'd be able to win a few games.

[CliffFletcher]

It's hard to keep a team playing hard when they're losing so much. Losing is demoralizing. So yeah, there will be stretches when the team bears down and hustles, and stretches where they don't. But at least the players don't look like they hate showing up at the rink, or play like they're completely tuning out the coach.

[Poe969]

As a coach, you focus more on the positives not the negatives. They Flames lost the game but some players played well, they stuck up for each other, they hustled, they improved....Wait, those are things he should be saying, instead he's benching young players to send a message

[Itse]

Yeah I have to agree with that sentiment. The team has not played THAT hard for a good stretch now.

However, while this team hasn't found consistency, it also does not have a tendency to curl up and die. They had good pushback efforts in three consecutive games just recently. (Blues, Avs, Sharks.)

Hartley isn't getting everything humanly possible out of this team, but he is not terrible either.

Can we realistically expect that if we fire Hartley now, we could get a better coach somewhere? I don't see it.

As to developing young players: 20 games. Have some patience people.

[wingmaker]

And, if they did fire Hartley and brought in someone else, and it didn't go well, then where are you? Everyone in the hockey world was gushing over the hiring of Eakins by Edmonton, but it hasn't gone well. Now all the stories are about having four coaches in five years, and firing Eakins becomes problematic because you have to bring in ANOTHER new coach. Heaven forbid they fire Hartley and his replacement doesn't improve things. Then how long does he last before you bring in someone else? I would argue that in the position the flames are in, it isn't about having the best coach in the world, it's about a consistent message and a stable atmosphere as the team finds itself.

Many posters wanted to fire Ward at the end of last season because apparently he was stunting young players development, too. Well right now the Heat are the best team in the AHL with a very young team. Maybe he isn't all that terrible after all.

[Yamer]

Posted this in the GDT, but thought it might fit here too.

From Roger Millions Twitter feed:

Hearing from insiders...Coach Hartley seems to have reached a peak in frustration with Baertschi. Looks like out tonight..maybe more.#Flames

Commence the hyperbole and vitriol...

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Posted this in the GDT, but thought it might fit here too.

From Roger Millions Twitter feed:



Commence the hyperbole and vitriol...

#FireHartley #Freesven

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Posted this in the GDT, but thought it might fit here too.

From Roger Millions Twitter feed:



Commence the hyperbole and vitriol...

Well this will eventually come to a head one way or another. Just have to wait and see. It's clear though Sven's a whipping boy. It's not like a lot of the other top 6 forwards haven't made just as many mistakes or more over the past few weeks.

Even the guys on the fan that try to be as politically correct as possible are having a tough time trying to defend what it going on and why Sven is always the guy paying the price. They are even accusing him of playing favorites.