[GDT] Red Wings vs Flames 7:00 - SNetW

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Actually in retrospect I like the Baertschi scratch and tonight will tell with the Backlund. The quote was Baertschi wasn't playing a 3 zone game and it seemed everyone assumed it was back to his defensive play which had been really good so far this season. I think it was due to his offensive play. He had focused so much on playing well in his zone, as was apparent in the San Jose game where he was shown covering for Monahan, that I think he wasn't paying enough attention to the offensive side of the puck.

Last game I thought Baertschi was stronger on the forecheck, more aggressive with the puck and his creativity was shining more than it had in the last half dozen games. Backlund I think is in the same boat where he has been an amazing 3rd line shut down center but his offense has suffered and the scratching was to help him get his offensive game back.

I'm excited for tonight to see him back in the lineup and see if he can come back with the same gusto that Baertschi did.

I don't agree with what you are saying. Baertschi WAS playing in all three zones and playing hard when he got scratched. That's why there was an uproar here on CP. It was a stupid decision to scratch him. He had been working his bag off and had been reported that he was staying late w coaches after practices to go over defensive positioning in situations on tape. So you reward him with the pressbox? If you try to sell me something different I won't buy it and I will suggest you weren't watching Baertschi closely enough.

Backlund has also been playing very well, especially on the D side of the puck. By far our best defensive/smart player all season. Once again it was a stupid decision to scratch him. Hartley gives him less than 10 minutes vs. Washington plays him with Bouma and McGrattan and then scratches him the next game? Backlund was 70% in the circle that night. Go with three centers and double shift Joe Colbourne vs. the Leafs? Dumb.

The big problem is there have been other players getting a free pass on their horrible play, yet you bench the kids who are giving it their all? This is supposed to be a rebulid. Bench the struggling half assed vets and let the kids learn their place in the NHL.

It's beyond obvious some players have a MUCH longer leash than others and I think it stinks, especially since we heard ALL summer that it didn't matter what you make or how long you've been in this league, if you get out played you will sit.

What a load of BS all that talk was.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Who would've thought that by game 13 we'd be deep enough at Center, Backlund would be relegated to the 4th line. Hard to argue though, Stajan has 3 points in 4 games and is our best defensive Center, Monahan is really like a 1B Center, lots of ice time easier line match ups and Colborne has gotten better each game. The way Hartley likes to mix his lines, would not surprise me to see Backlund with some other line mates tonight. Just need Mac to give us an important save when we need one. Tight game 4-3 OT win.

Not sure why a guy like McGrattan is needed vs a team like the Wings.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Husky

Not sure why a guy like McGrattan is needed vs a team like the Wings.

The way Jackman has played, He wouldn't be any better of an option, Grats has done his job well this year and stayed out of the penalty box doing so. Jackman has costed us a goal or two almost every game he's played this year from dumb penalties.

[Henry Fool]

Most coaches have their favorites, unfortunately. Coaches know a lot about the game, but they can still make the mistake of either over-thinking issues or over-relying on their tried-and-true "gut feelings".

The obvious thing for me is that Backlund is the most solid center the team has. Would be nice to know what the idea behind not letting him play is.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by FBI

Not sure how Backlund is supposed to redeem himself playing with Bouma and Mcgrattan.. I guess score 2 goals in 4 minutes of icetime.

Agreed. Logjam at center though.

[Bring_Back_Oliwa]

Originally Posted by Husky

Not sure why a guy like McGrattan is needed vs a team like the Wings.

Pretty sure Hartley is just trying to perform a Sneaky Tank.

Scratch players who are performing well and are part of the future or hide them on the fourth line.

Showcase are tradable assets while losing hard fought 1 goal games to maintain the appearance of a winning culture.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I don't agree with what you are saying. Baertschi WAS playing in all three zones and playing hard when he got scratched. That's why there was an uproar here on CP. It was a stupid decision to scratch him. He had been working his bag off and had been reported that he was staying late w coaches after practices to go over defensive positioning in situations on tape. So you reward him with the pressbox? If you try to sell me something different I won't buy it and I will suggest you weren't watching Baertschi closely enough.

Backlund has also been playing very well, especially on the D side of the puck. By far our best defensive/smart player all season. Once again it was a stupid decision to scratch him. Hartley gives him less than 10 minutes vs. Washington plays him with Bouma and McGrattan and then scratches him the next game? Backlund was 70% in the circle that night. Go with three centers and double shift Joe Colbourne vs. the Leafs? Dumb.

The big problem is there have been other players getting a free pass on their horrible play, yet you bench the kids who are giving it their all? This is supposed to be a rebulid. Bench the struggling half assed vets and let the kids learn their place in the NHL.

It's beyond obvious some players have a MUCH longer leash than others and I think it stinks, especially since we heard ALL summer that it didn't matter what you make or how long you've been in this league, if you get out played you will sit.

What a load of BS all that talk was.

I am trying not to look at the pressbox as a reward/punishment thing with a rebuilding team and more as a developement tool. I was watching Baertschi and from game 1 he was working his bag off and putting in the time, to focus on the defensive side of the puck. In the few games before he got benched he was becoming more of a "safe" player. More dumping into the zone, more peeling back early. And there is nothing wrong with that, but in the same way Edmonton has ruined their youth by not giving them the training defensivally I think Baertschi and Backlund have both been too focused on that.

When people talk about sending kids back to junior there is always talk about confidence and losing it on the big stage. Baertschi to me looked like a player losing his offensive confidence, he wasn't trying to beat guys one on one, he wasn't taking the play to his opponents.

While a veteren will work through it, a rookie needs a more restrictive approach so he doesn't work himself down. I trust that the coaching staff understand the best method to use with their players.

The pressbox for young guys isn't meant to be "you are playing bad and are punished", but can be more of a "you could be better, take a new perspective and refocus on what you need to do."

I stand by Baertschi looking way more comfortable and confident since then and I think it may just do the same for Backlund. Hartley and the team are not only building a culture, but also training these guys to be complete players, not one sided dynammos.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Icon

Agreed. Logjam at center though.

Yup, he got Stajaned.

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by FBI

Not sure how Backlund is supposed to redeem himself playing with Bouma and Mcgrattan.. I guess score 2 goals in 4 minutes of icetime.

You do know that Backlund is allowed to be put on other lines with other wingers throughout the course of the game, right?

Just because he's "penciled" in on the 4th line doesn't mean he's not allowed to be moved up and down the lineup.

He is probably going to be put on the pp and pk.

If he's playing well, pretty sure he'll get more then 4mins. Heck, he might be up around 10 or 15 mins tonight.

[FBI]

Yeah that works in theory.. But check out the TOI for all our games for players designated for the "4th line".. Very rarely works like that in reality if ever..

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

He is probably going to be put on the pp and pk.

Yeah, not with Hartley as coach.
He'll be lucky to see 15 minutes in total.

[FBI]

fyp, no way Backlund gets 15 mins tonight..
Still hope I wrong though..

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

Yeah, not with Hartley as coach.
He'll be lucky to see 8 minutes in total.

[Parallex]

Yeah... I'm pretty much done with Hartley.

This thing with Backlund is the proverbial straw breaking the camels back. Gives MacDonald to many starts off the bat, then demotes and Benches Sven, then demotes and benches Backlund, then put's him back in the line-up in the worst position to address what he said he was benched for, does nothing to vets playing worse then either of them.

Just done with him.

[strombad]

I'm always impressed by the penchant some members of this fanbase have for turning on the coach over the most minute details.

3-2 Flames.

[_Q_]

I think Hartley knows what he's doing... definitely more than a few dudes on some message board.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I stand by Baertschi looking way more comfortable and confident since then and I think it may just do the same for Backlund.

I fail to see how giving him 4th line minutes and sticking him with McGrattan on his Wing is going help him offensively (according to hartley what he was pressboxed for). At least when he dogged Baertschi he immediately put him back in a position to succeed afterwards.

[FBI]

Willing to give Hartley the benefit of the doubt, just not impressed with some questionable decisions lately.. Maybe Hartley will give us all a good reason that Backlund will play with Bouma and Mcgrattan to improve what he needed to work on.

[bc-chris]

looking forward to dinner tonight... chicken wings will be bbq-ed (cooked by flames!! YES!!!)

then apply a healthy dose of hot sauce, then fire them in the oven for a few minutes - DELICIOUS!!

i love it when the flames play detroit!

GO FLAMES GO!!!!!

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I fail to see how giving him 4th line minutes and sticking him with McGrattan on his Wing is going help him offensively (according to hartley what he was pressboxed for). At least when he dogged Baertschi he immediately put him back in a position to succeed afterwards.

Agreed. I posted my first one before I knew the projected lines. Nothing to do now than see how he is utilized tonight. I'm hoping he sees some time with other wingers because you are right, leaving him on the fourth line is not going to help him. It took Stajan the better part of two seasons to get his confidence back after being religated to the fourth line by Sutter.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think Hartley knows what he's doing... definitely more than a few dudes on some message board.

Totally agree. He's revived Stajan, revived JBo last season, and Jordano has been playing great so I think he's doing a pretty good job.

Like any coach in the league, he will make some questionable decisions. I don't like the idea of benching Backs then have him come back to play 6 mins with Boums and Grats but its hard to stick Colborne on that line when he's been playing so good lately.