Rumor Philadelphia interested in Glencross

[strombad]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think, we're at the point where we don't need Schenn and Couturier in the organization. Getting decent defencemen, right wingers and goalies of the Schenn/Couturier calibre should be more important in my opinion.

Unless you're Pittsburgh, you always need Schenn or Couturier in your organization. They're both great 2nd line options, or 3rd on a deep squad, and Schenn can play wing. Plus if you're focused on just getting this part or that part, you're making it more difficult on yourself in the long run. If we acquire Schenn, and we then have (down the line) Backlund, Monahan, Janko, Reinhart, etc, then you can take one of those guys, either whom you feel will garner you the greatest return or who you feel is expendable and move them for a position of need when that opportunity arises. I mean, Stajan is going to be gone soon, we have an influx of average center prospects, and Janko could very well never develop into a great player. That leaves us with Backlund and Monahan as bonafide top six centers. No reason not to add a Schenn-type to the mix.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by strombad

Unless you're Pittsburgh, you always need Schenn or Couturier in your organization. They're both great 2nd line options, or 3rd on a deep squad, and Schenn can play wing. Plus if you're focused on just getting this part or that part, you're making it more difficult on yourself in the long run. If we acquire Schenn, and we then have (down the line) Backlund, Monahan, Janko, Reinhart, etc, then you can take one of those guys, either whom you feel will garner you the greatest return or who you feel is expendable and move them for a position of need when that opportunity arises. I mean, Stajan is going to be gone soon, we have an influx of average center prospects, and Janko could very well never develop into a great player. That leaves us with Backlund and Monahan as bonafide top six centers. No reason not to add a Schenn-type to the mix.

Oh so, they're sort of like Stajan, Backlund, Monahan, Horak, Street, Knight, and possibly Colborne and Jankowski.

Unless we are getting a true, blue-chip, bonafide #1 star centre in the making, we don't need any more "decent 3rd liners that can possibly play as second liners one day". Sorry to say, those two Flyers players don't fall in that category.

I would much rather have "decent second pairing defencemen that can maybe one day play on the top pairing" kind of guys going forward.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Oh so, they're sort of like Stajan, Backlund, Monahan, Horak, Street, Knight, and possibly Colborne and Jankowski.

Unless we are getting a true, blue-chip, bonafide #1 star centre in the making, we don't need any more "decent 3rd liners that can possibly play as second liners one day". Sorry to say, those two Flyers players don't fall in that category.

I would much rather have "decent second pairing defencemen that can maybe one day play on the top pairing" kind of guys going forward.

Disagree so much with this post. I do agree the flames lack a top 4 D but looking at the system they are doing okay in terms of shutdown guys. Wortherspoon, Ramage, Sieloff, Breen are all shutdown type dmen. We do lack puck movers in the system

Street, Stajan, Knight, Horak in the same class as Couturier and Schenn? Get real. Schenn and Couts are not guaranteed but have much higher upside (realistic) than any flames prospect not named Monahan or Baertschi

[moon]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Oh so, they're sort of like Stajan, Backlund, Monahan, Horak, Street, Knight, and possibly Colborne and Jankowski.

Unless we are getting a true, blue-chip, bonafide #1 star centre in the making, we don't need any more "decent 3rd liners that can possibly play as second liners one day". Sorry to say, those two Flyers players don't fall in that category.

I would much rather have "decent second pairing defencemen that can maybe one day play on the top pairing" kind of guys going forward.

Street, Knight, Horak, Jankowski, Colborne are not close to 2nd line options and are a stretch as 3rd line guys on bad teams.

Backlund, Stajan are borderline 2nd line guys on bad teams and alright 3rd line options on deep teams.

Monahan it is too early to say yet.

Schenn and Couturier are better options right now than any centres we have and going forward only would be behind Monahan, if that, in terms of future potential.

Getting one of them helps with C depth if Backlubd doesn't take a big step up, Monahan doesn't pan out offensively and none if the other guys surprises.

Having Schenn/Courturier, Monahan and Backlund as the future top 9 centres is a pretty solid C core moving forward. Allows more flexibility with lines and less pressure on maybes likes Horak, Colbirne and Knight to have to turn out to be top 6 guys.

[Jer Bu]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Oh so, they're sort of like Stajan, Backlund, Monahan, Horak, Street, Knight, and possibly Colborne and Jankowski.

Unless we are getting a true, blue-chip, bonafide #1 star centre in the making, we don't need any more "decent 3rd liners that can possibly play as second liners one day". Sorry to say, those two Flyers players don't fall in that category.

I would much rather have "decent second pairing defencemen that can maybe one day play on the top pairing" kind of guys going forward.

Brayden SChenn is a bonafide #1 star in the making. Potential is a #1 or #2 center. He is a 5th overall pick with 26 points last year and 12 goals in 54 the year before. This is his 4th year and will probably be a breakout. He is lining up for PP1 minutes and is already averaging 15 minutes total a game with Giroux and Hartnell.

We want Brayden Schenn. Everyone does.

[Jer Bu]

Sorry to be third one to post that. Didnt mean to pile on...

[strombad]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Oh so, they're sort of like Stajan, Backlund, Monahan, Horak, Street, Knight, and possibly Colborne and Jankowski.

Unless we are getting a true, blue-chip, bonafide #1 star centre in the making, we don't need any more "decent 3rd liners that can possibly play as second liners one day". Sorry to say, those two Flyers players don't fall in that category.

I would much rather have "decent second pairing defencemen that can maybe one day play on the top pairing" kind of guys going forward.

Yikes, saying Stajan, Horak, Street, Knight, or Colbourne are in that class is laughable. Janko is a long shot, he's a maybe, and Monahan will be but he isn't there yet.

These guys aren't "decent 3rd liners that maybe play second" these guys are second line guys who play third line minutes on say... I don't know... a Pittsburgh? When I say deep, I don't mean "well we've got Stajan!" I mean actual talented center depth, which we don't have.
If you're delusional enough to say that all those guys are in the same conversation as Schenn and Couturier, then I'm not sure why you're concerned about defence. We have plenty of average defence and defence prospects that I'm sure would appease you.

It's terribly rare to flip a "2nd/3rd liner who could play top minutes on a bad team" for a defenceman who would be "a good 2nd pairing guy who could play on the top pairing (on a good team)". Remember, you want guys who fit in high on good teams, not guys who are good on bad teams.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by moon

Street, Knight, Horak, Jankowski, Colborne are not close to 2nd line options and are a stretch as 3rd line guys on bad teams.

Backlund, Stajan are borderline 2nd line guys on bad teams and alright 3rd line options on deep teams.

Monahan it is too early to say yet.

Uhmm... how old is Jankowski relative to Monahan? WAY too early to pigeon-hole Jankowski at any line right now. He may indeed develop into anywhere from a very good 1st line center, to a 4th line winger. To write him off as 'a stretch as a 3rd line guy on a bad team' is horribly premature and short-sighted. How about we let this kid adapt for another season at least?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

How good is Brayden Schenn? or how big of a disappointment is he so far?

Mike Richards was dumped by the Flyers. They were disappointed in him.
....

but if in 4 years Monahan is at the Schenn level everyone at CP will be terribly disappointed.

Yeah. Not for on-ice performance though. http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl,wp9667

There were millions of rumours of Richards and Carter partying long before they were traded.

Besides, in Richards breakout season there wasn't a ton of depth. He surprisingly jumped ahead of free agent Briere in the depth chart and ended up getting 20+ minutes a night playing 5 minutes on the PP along with Briere each game. Half his points came from the PP, and anyone playing 5 minutes a night is going to put up points. Even Matt Cullen was nearing a point-per-game that season because he was playing as much time on the PP as Richards was.

Then came the biggest factor, Claude Giroux. It's not a surprise that when Giroux overpassed Richards on the depth chart that Richards numbers fell quite substantially. When someone is ahead of you in the depth chart it's a lot harder to put up those points. Same with Kopitar ahead of him in LA now.

With Schenn the Flyers have greater center depth. Giroux is getting top line minutes, nothing will stop that. So Schenn had to fight with Briere, Couturier and now Lecavalier for minutes while the coaches juggle lines and changed positions to try and get the most out of the team. And despite not getting a lot of time he was still able to put up respectable numbers. Now if he ends up playing right wing on the top line with Giroux permanently his stats will inflate while Voracek will be in a similar position as Richards was when Giroux showed up.

So if 4 years from now Monahan is only putting up 45 points we may be disappointed in him. Depends though, is he top line center or playing behind McDavid and Sam Reinhart?

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Glencross for Brayden Schenn and a 2nd. I would do it if I were the Flames or Flyers GM.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Glencross for Brayden Schenn and a 2nd. I would do it if I were the Flames or Flyers GM.

Why would the Flyers GM consider it. We are giving the pick even then I doubt Philly does it.

I think the only way we get Schenn is if Sven is going the other way

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Why would the Flyers GM consider it. We are giving the pick even then I doubt Philly does it.

I think the only way we get Schenn is if Sven is going the other way

I agree Vinny, not sure how Iggy was supposed to get us Schenn and Simmonds or that was the rumour. Fast Forward 4-5 years and now Glencross gets us Schenn and a 2nd, but hey if Brian Burke upgraded our trading expertise to that can we give Brian Burke a raise yet, or at least start the in Burke we trust slogan.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Really? I thought Schenn was less of an untouchable on the Flyers then Sven is for us but this is all speculation so who knows..

I could see them willing to give up Schenn for a deal not involving Sven.

Also I think Glencross is both overrated and undervalued by the fans.
We think of him as a worldbeater in a way but we also dont see his amazing value to other teams as a 2nd or 3rd LW. He plays a game that is perfect for a playoff run when he is consistent and possibly has the best value contract in the NHL. IMO He can easily fetch us Schenn. But then again I dont know how much the Flyers like Schenn and how they value him.

If we did get Schenn somehow...we could go ahead and take Ekblad or McKeown with our first rounder and not be too tempted to grab Sam Reinhart.

I think Glencross is more valuable than Bouwmeester or Iginla mostly due to his contract, so if we did give him away I would want a very good return. Top prospect / 2nd/3rd pick or 1st rounder and mid good prospect.

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

I agree Vinny, not sure how Iggy was supposed to get us Schenn and Simmonds or that was the rumour. Fast Forward 4-5 years and now Glencross gets us Schenn and a 2nd, but hey if Brian Burke upgraded our trading expertise to that can we give Brian Burke a raise yet, or at least start the in Burke we trust slogan.

Not saying that glen cross is worth Schenn but I think the logic in such trade proposals is that Schenn's stock has dropped since 2010. I'm pretty sure most people projected Schenn to be a 20 goal scorer by now back when the Iginla to LA trade rumours came up

[BigTuna]

Kadri was a bust @ 19 but Schenn is still some future superstar?

[Crumpy-Gunt]

^I think Schenn is 22. Plus Kadri was very prematurely judged - this is completely different. Expectations were pretty high for this kid since he tied the WJC scoring record.

Either way we should wait until the deadline to move any of our more appealing players. Camel, Stempniak, Scoreface could each get us a 1st rounder if we play our cards right. #20 and #13 could definitely fetch a 1st at the deadline and we would end up picking 3 times in the first round for the second year in a row. That would be a good way to accelerate the rebuild.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Not saying that glen cross is worth Schenn but I think the logic in such trade proposals is that Schenn's stock has dropped since 2010. I'm pretty sure most people projected Schenn to be a 20 goal scorer by now back when the Iginla to LA trade rumours came up

I'm pretty sure that Schenn is still good for 20 he is still only 22 years old. Still holds much more value then Glencross, other than contract. Once you start adding in a 2nd on top this borders on having very red goggles.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Kadri was a bust @ 19 but Schenn is still some future superstar?

What?!

Are you overlooking the fact that Kadri broke out at 22? If anything Kadri should support the argument that the now 22 year old Schenn still has potential not hurt it...

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by moon

Street, Knight, Horak, Jankowski, Colborne are not close to 2nd line options and are a stretch as 3rd line guys on bad teams.

I agree with the point of your post, and think that having as many top center prospects as you can is a good move, but to write off some of these guys is a little too early.

Jankowski is the same age as the majority of guys taken in this past draft and is still WJC eligible. Way to early to say he is not a 2nd line option long term.

Corban Knight has played 2 professional hockey games. Much too early to write him off at this point in time as well.

Horak is only 22 years old and has shown he can be a capabable bottom 6 NHLer. I think it is too early to write him off at this point as well.

Even Colborne is only 23. A long shot at this point to ever be an impact player in a top 9 role but there is still the potential he is a late bloomer.

Street is a guy that will never be a top 9 NHL center for an average team, I will agree there.

Agree 100% though. If you can add Schenn to this roster at the right price you do it every time. Strong teams are built with Center ice depth and top centers always hold the most trade value.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Glencross for Brayden Schenn and a 2nd. I would do it if I were the Flames or Flyers GM.

While I think Baertschi will be a better offensive player than Schenn why in the world would the Flyers trade us a young centre with a much higher upside than Glencross plus throw in a 2nd? Try us throwing in the 2nd plus a prospect.