Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The arena looks like its contingent on a successful Olympics bid.

If that's the case then there's a 50/50 chance at best it gets built.

Olympics or no Olympics, there will be a new arena. Tying to the Olympics just happens to be a very convenient way to help justifying funds for the project, but it will happen either way.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by strombad

As well, I believe part of the reason they are looking at the redevelopment areas is to essentially "piggy back" on the City while it builds infrastructure around it, instead of requiring infrastructure specifically FOR the arena project.

I agree that the only way that they would get money from the city/province (and the only way I'd personally be ok with it as a tax payer) is if the money goes to infrastructure around the arena. I'd love to see a more developed waterfront pathway/promenade in the west village. Im not sure what else you might be able to put there as an arena/stadium would take up most of the land. I don't see there being a lot of room for condo towers.

Having said that reworking that entire road network would be a massive project. It would need to be something that has long-term benefit to Calgarians outside of just the stadium(s). If not, with such a big investment, I'd like to see the city get a cut of revenue until they get their money back. 0% loan....but still a loan.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Olympics or no Olympics, there will be a new arena. Tying to the Olympics just happens to be a very convenient way to help justifying funds for the project, but it will happen either way.

I highly doubt that. Linking it to the Olympics is ownership's best shot at prying public money to pay for it. If they don't get public money they wont build a new arena. You can take that to the bank.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I highly doubt that. Linking it to the Olympics is ownership's best shot at prying public money to pay for it. If they don't get public money they wont build a new arena. You can take that to the bank.

Cheque bounced. They'll be building it with or without the Olympics, it was confirmed before the Olympics theory ever arose. Olympics means they get federal money for the project, that's all. There's zero chance it doesn't happen, sorry chap.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I highly doubt that. Linking it to the Olympics is ownership's best shot at prying public money to pay for it. If they don't get public money they wont build a new arena. You can take that to the bank.

I think you don't quite understand the scope of what Flames ownership is trying to do. There's a football stadium in the works as well and the Olympic bid would help with the arena and stadium for opening and closing ceremonies however the Olympics isn't the be all end all for the funding.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I highly doubt that. Linking it to the Olympics is ownership's best shot at prying public money to pay for it. If they don't get public money they wont build a new arena. You can take that to the bank.

Why would they not get public money for a rink? They will get some, precident has been set, you can take that to the bank.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would they not get public money for a rink? They will get some, precident has been set, you can take that to the bank.

Well the Mayor has certainly said there's no public money coming. Redford and the province are in a tight situation and have accepted unscrupulous donations from Katz meaning that they're politically restrained from providing money. So my question is, if that's the case, where is the public money coming from?

Harper was lambasted for offering up money for the Quebec City arena, he wont dip his toe in that pool for some time.

There's no money without a successful Olympic bid.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Someone posted the article about how NFL owners do this and thats what happens. I cannot remember the last stadium/arena that was built in North America without at least a 20% portion coming from taxpayers. Linking it to an Olympic bid is the best way to get public money because then they can claim the benefit of a new arena isn't just about the Flames, but the city of Calgary.

But make no mistake any new arena will have fewer seats (at the expense of more luxury boxes), and the seats will cost more (usually at least 10% more, often 20% or more). The Flames will be the largest beneficiaries of a new arena by far, which is why taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for a cent. Support infrastructure is fine, but do not help pay for the building.

[j_j]

Originally Posted by strombad

It's bloody incredible the things people nitpick about.

It's not even close to nitpiking to comment on such a bold statement.

But instead of just saying he's wrong, I looked it up. It's probably an even money bet.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by j_j

It's not even close to nitpiking to comment on such a bold statement.

But instead of just saying he's wrong, I looked it up. It's probably an even money bet.

I think we can all assume that his statement didn't directly hinge on the reference to being 80 years old.

Come on son, pick your battles.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Well the Mayor has certainly said there's no public money coming. Redford and the province are in a tight situation and have accepted unscrupulous donations from Katz meaning that they're politically restrained from providing money. So my question is, if that's the case, where is the public money coming from?

Harper was lambasted for offering up money for the Quebec City arena, he wont dip his toe in that pool for some time.

There's no money without a successful Olympic bid.

How long have you been around for? Olympic or no Olympics, there will be public funding of some sort for this project. The fact that politians say what they say means nothing, it's a complete game, they did the same up north. Where it's right or not isn't really the debate at this point, but if you actually believe the Flames won't build a new rink, and if you actually think that when they do, an Olympic bid is the only way they'll get some funding, then you are truely out to lunch. This is how these things always work, and the government has no recourse now after what they did in Edmonton. It's going to happen one way or another, it always does.

[Muta]

One should re-think their current position if they think this project will just an arena, maybe a football stadium too.

[Tyler]

Casino
Convention Centre
Hotel
Entertainment District
Arena
Stadium

What do I win?

[You Need a Thneed]

I can see the Flames working with the city to get a CRL in the Westvillage/Sunalta to fund a bunch of the work.

That's certainly not fishy accounting, and isn't really taxpayers paying for the building. The area will need a CRL to get redeveloped, no matter when it happens.

Perhaps the city could chip in to pay for Bow Trail reconfiguration, 14th Street/Bow Trail interchange rebuild, and modifying the pedestrian bridge from Sunalta station. It would probably require more pedestrian crossings of the CPR tracks and Bow Trail too.

I don't have problem with the city paying a little money for the actual arena/stadium if they would receive some of the profit out of it.

[Robbob]

I really have to applaud the Flames for being able to keep things under the radar for so long.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Someone posted the article about how NFL owners do this and thats what happens. I cannot remember the last stadium/arena that was built in North America without at least a 20% portion coming from taxpayers. Linking it to an Olympic bid is the best way to get public money because then they can claim the benefit of a new arena isn't just about the Flames, but the city of Calgary.

But make no mistake any new arena will have fewer seats (at the expense of more luxury boxes), and the seats will cost more (usually at least 10% more, often 20% or more). The Flames will be the largest beneficiaries of a new arena by far, which is why taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for a cent. Support infrastructure is fine, but do not help pay for the building.

MetLife was 100% privately funded. The new Niners stadium is supposed to be 88% privately funded. Gillette was 83% privately funded. Ford Field at 75% and FedEx at 72% aren't far off the mark.

http://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress....ry-12-2-11.pdf

I'm sure the Flames owners would like to have access to public funds, but they aren't about to sit in an old building that doesn't allow them to maximize revenue streams for another 20 years simply because Calgary isn't hosting an Olympics. Thinking that will happen (not you, but Tinordi) is ridiculous.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I really have to applaud the Flames for being able to keep things under the radar for so long.

Especially with so many people (it seems) that know bits and pieces of what is going on.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Casino
Convention Centre
Hotel
Entertainment District
Arena
Stadium

What do I win?

Enlightenment.

[Puppet Guy]

this thread is reminding me of the "Coyotes Mess Settled by Monday" thread.

[jaydub74]

I'm interested in how the Flames plan to implement the new building into the surrounding area. Will be be built with vast parking lots around it or will be be more like the stadiums built in NYC, Vancouver and Toronto. No surface parking, more integrated into the surrounding community. More like a commercial building downtown. Does anyone know if NYC, Vancouver or Toronto have public underground parking? Or do you have to walk or take transit?

I like the idea of a more integrated building, less surface parking, numerous underground stalls. Obviously substantially more expensive to build, but it would free up additional space around the stadiums for restaurants, hotels and an entertainment district. The revenues from those developments would easily offset the underground parking costs.

Spit balling ideas...