[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

And before that it was Boyd and before that it was Kobasew and Lombardi and before that it was Saprykin. Where are they now? I'm getting tired of all our promising young forwards crapping the bed. After so long I think it's more a problem of team development than problems with the player. That Backlund is turning into a solid pro, and good for him, but it isn't exactly the expectations that most had for him.

Are any of the same development staff still with the Flames as when Boyd and Lombardi, et al were brought up? How is that relevant? Could we also then talk about how we developed Fleury?

[Dogbert]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Shinkaruk is going to spend most of the season in various horizontal positions on the ice.

So will everyone else on Vancouver's roster.

[Caged Great]

Sven has been playing very inconsistently over the past year and a half. He has a lot of talent, and he'll get by with that alone. However, the only thing that will keep him from being a player like Jiri Hudler is learning to be consistent. That may never materialize and he'll become a decent 2nd/3rd liner like Hudler. Hopefully by making him fight for it, it might inspire him to find that consistency he's been lacking.

I doubt he gets sent down. He's been better than several of the bubble guys. Just needs to wake up instead of being complacent.

[puds]

I don't really see the point of comparing Bartschi to Boyd, Kobasew and Lombardi. Boyd was only a skilled prospect compared to the rest of our abysmal prospect pool at the time, Kobasew was never able to stay on his feet, and Lombardi was a pretty good NHLer albeit one who was basically a one trick pony (really fast, no hockey IQ) until his career was derailed by injuries.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It looks like the Canucks will start the season with 3 rookies: Corrado, Horvat, and Shinkaruk. It looks like we may not start the season with Baertschi and/or Monahan.

The Canucks are playing their young players in top 6/4 roles with good players. Which team is supposed to be rebuilding?

The team that's developing it's prospects and isn't rushing them to the NHL?

Even if the above were accurate and true (which I doubt... at least in totality) I think the inferrence it's built on is faulty (that the rebuilding team is the one that should be playing their young players in top 6/4 roles). IMO it's contending teams that should be doing that (filling holes in the line-up with highly touted prospects in order to maximize cap space elsewhere to create depth or to fill a gap with a player that overs upside in excess of the value a lesser skilled but more experienced player has to offer.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Dogbert

So will everyone else on Vancouver's roster.

Good point. No one will notice his lack of strength so long as he pretends to be diving.

[polak]

I don't know, I'm not a big fan of playing potential top 6 prospects in bottom 6 roles. You're just putting them in a position for them to fail as it's extremely difficult for a kid to carry a line on his own.

I wish this team had some faith in prospects and let them play in the roles they were drafted to play.

[868904]

On this whole Sven thing.

I agree with those who aren't enthralled with his recent attitude. He seems to make a lot of excuses and has a bit of a sense of self entitlement. Maybe he just cares too much and he's putting too much pressure on himself and making excuses.

Having said that, he has a point, he really shouldn't be playing with scrubs. He should be playing with skill guys because he is a playmaker and scorer.

Overall, I think his play has been decent. It is true that he has generated offense and that his linemates have not finished. Sven isn't the type of player who is going to look great playing a 200 foot game. There are times when he's going to look lazy and small and weak; however, at the end of the night, he'll have a couple of points.

You can't really compare him with a guy like Monahan who has an impact in every part of the game.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Dude, that is a heckuva lot of speculation. I don't think I've heard anything from anybody about any of these things.

Can we please wait until something happens before deciding that this player thinks this or the coaching staff thinks this. Or how about we wait until we actually hear what they do think, you know, from their own mouths?

Again, if you don't want to talk about this topic until something is concrete, or someone says something that puts things in stone, then don't. But this is your second post in this thread telling me what I am and am not allowed to post about in your opinion. Let me be clear this time, because I guess I wasn't last time, I don't give a flying #### what you want me to post about. Feel free to put me on ignore, or simply dissregard my posts, I couldn't care less, but stop trying to tell me what to chat about.

If we could only talk about things that were 100% for sure, this site would be limited to talking about the scores of the games, because no one, not players, managers or coaches ever speak in absolutes, we never get the full picture on what DEFINETLY happened. I'm more than comfortable drawing conclusions from the actualy comments we have from Sven (you know the actual words he's saying where he talks about getting "some" opportunities and who he liked playing with and how that's impacted his performance). I'm well aware that all I'm voicing is an opinion on what might be going on, just like everyone else on here who thinks management is screwing up his development. No one knows for sure what's going on, but we are enjoying talking about it.

So please, shut the hell up when it comes to trying to dictate what folks should or shouldn't be talknig about.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It looks like the Canucks will start the season with 3 rookies: Corrado, Horvat, and Shinkaruk. It looks like we may not start the season with Baertschi and/or Monahan.

The Canucks are playing their young players in top 6/4 roles with good players. Which team is supposed to be rebuilding?

So what are you upset about? The fact that management of the Flames might not be playing their rookies, or that our rookies didn't do enough to make the team? Which one is it?

That point could be used to argue multiple sides of this debate.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Again, if you don't want to talk about this topic until something is concrete, or someone says something that puts things in stone, then don't. But this is your second post in this thread telling me what I am and am not allowed to post about in your opinion. Let me be clear this time, because I guess I wasn't last time, I don't give a flying #### what you want me to post about. Feel free to put me on ignore, or simply dissregard my posts, I couldn't care less, but stop trying to tell me what to chat about.

If we could only talk about things that were 100% for sure, this site would be limited to talking about the scores of the games, because no one, not players, managers or coaches ever speak in absolutes, we never get the full picture on what DEFINETLY happened. I'm more than comfortable drawing conclusions from the actualy comments we have from Sven (you know the actual words he's saying where he talks about getting "some" opportunities and who he liked playing with and how that's impacted his performance). I'm well aware that all I'm voicing is an opinion on what might be going on, just like everyone else on here who thinks management is screwing up his development. No one knows for sure what's going on, but we are enjoying talking about it.

So please, shut the hell up when it comes to trying to dictate what folks should or shouldn't be talknig about.

You admitted you haven't seen a single pre-season game yet you're trying to draw so many conclusions that have been contradicted by so many before you.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You admitted you haven't seen a single pre-season game yet you're trying to draw so many conclusions that have been contradicted by so many before you.

I've seen 2 pre season games. None had Sven in them. What's your point? I've made it clear I haven't seen him play this season. I've also made 0 comments about his play, all my comments have been on the attitude he is displaying in the media and the comments he's making?

I haven't once made a comment about the quality of his play. I've made comments on whether or not I feel management (who has seen him play) is capable of properly identifying what his needs are, and I've made comments about where his head seems to be at based on the things I HAVE heard him say. The guy sounds like someone who feels like he doesn't have to prove himself anymore, and he sounds like he only appreciates ice time with players he wants to play with. End of story, I haven't once said anything about how he looks on the ice.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by 868904

You can't really compare him with a guy like Monahan who has an impact in every part of the game.

I think a good comparable to Sven/Monahan would be Kane/Toews

Now, to be clear, I'm not saying either of those guys will ever be as good as the other two, but for comparisons sake:

Sven is speedy, creative, and when he's in the zone he shows flashes of brilliance. Whether by effort or ability, his game without the puck is lacking. A lot of this is comparable to Kane, who struggled a lot with his effort away from the puck and his defensive ability early on. He's not a whole lot better by now, but the kid is incredible offensively, so he gets a pass.

Monahan isn't a flashy guy, there's not a huge burst of speed, but his skating is calculated and smooth, he's big and unafraid of going to hard areas. Defensively he's sound, and will likely be a great 200 ft guy. Offensively he'll never blow it up, but he can certainly contribute. Toews is the very same. Defensively he's lights out, he's mature well beyond his years, plays hard every night with or without the puck, and is an immeasurable asset to have on your team. Offensively he'll likely never win a scoring title, but he pops 23-30+ goals every year, and has become a point-per-game guy.

Now, what's my point in comparing those two to the other two?
In Chicago, the two are rarely compared in terms of the players they are. There is debate over who is better (Toews) or who is more valuable to the team (Toews) but there is rarely direct comparisons made between their games because they are completely different players. Yin and yang. They are excellent parts to have, but it would be foolish to talk about Kane's defensive game in relation to Toews, because that's not Kane's bag. And nobody is going to say "Toews isn't as good as Kane because Kane wins scoring titles" because that's not Toews game.

I get the need to compare Sven and Monahan, but they are two completely different players. For years to come we are going to enjoy having them both, and it's likely Sven will never wow us defensively, and Monahan will never blow it up offensively. But that doesn't matter. What matters is that we have two really solid players that each give us something different. Any effort to compare the way they play the game is only going to be self serving.

[sureLoss]

Uh oh

Randy Sportak ‏@SUNRandySportak 18s No Cammalleri or Baertschi on the ice today during #Flames practice.

Injury or sent down?

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Uh oh

Randy Sportak ‏@SUNRandySportak 18s No Cammalleri or Baertschi on the ice today during #Flames practice.

Injury or sent down?

Cue meltdown in 5... 4... 3... 2...

[Five-hole]

My guess is Cammy sent down. Flames brass tired of him thinking he deserved a spot and not working for it.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by strombad

I think a good comparable to Sven/Monahan would be Kane/Toews

Now, to be clear, I'm not saying either of those guys will ever be as good as the other two, but for comparisons sake:

Sven is speedy, creative, and when he's in the zone he shows flashes of brilliance. Whether by effort or ability, his game without the puck is lacking. A lot of this is comparable to Kane, who struggled a lot with his effort away from the puck and his defensive ability early on. He's not a whole lot better by now, but the kid is incredible offensively, so he gets a pass.

Monahan isn't a flashy guy, there's not a huge burst of speed, but his skating is calculated and smooth, he's big and unafraid of going to hard areas. Defensively he's sound, and will likely be a great 200 ft guy. Offensively he'll never blow it up, but he can certainly contribute. Toews is the very same. Defensively he's lights out, he's mature well beyond his years, plays hard every night with or without the puck, and is an immeasurable asset to have on your team. Offensively he'll likely never win a scoring title, but he pops 23-30+ goals every year, and has become a point-per-game guy.

Now, what's my point in comparing those two to the other two?
In Chicago, the two are rarely compared in terms of the players they are. There is debate over who is better (Toews) or who is more valuable to the team (Toews) but there is rarely direct comparisons made between their games because they are completely different players. Yin and yang. They are excellent parts to have, but it would be foolish to talk about Kane's defensive game in relation to Toews, because that's not Kane's bag. And nobody is going to say "Toews isn't as good as Kane because Kane wins scoring titles" because that's not Toews game.

I get the need to compare Sven and Monahan, but they are two completely different players. For years to come we are going to enjoy having them both, and it's likely Sven will never wow us defensively, and Monahan will never blow it up offensively. But that doesn't matter. What matters is that we have two really solid players that each give us something different. Any effort to compare the way they play the game is only going to be self serving.

No one does now because they are winning. But you've read stories about them considering moving Kane at times because he's not a hard worker or he parties too hard.

Hockey people need to get over the idea that all hockey players need to have the good ole Canadian boy mindset. Some guys aren't going to be the quiet hardworking cliche spouting player. If a guy has a talent and helps the team than the team braintrust needs to be willing to accept it.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

My guess is Cammy sent down. Flames brass tired of him thinking he deserved a spot and not working for it.

And Peter Loubardias chimes in with "That's some kind of funny right there"

[MolsonInBothHands]

It isn't the end of the world if Sven is sent down to work on some adjustments and get his confidence back. Detroit's philosophy of 'over cooking' their prospects, so they are hungry and focussed when they get to the bigs seems to work for them, and it doesn't seem to deter prospects from sticking with their organization.

IF Sven gets sent down, the fact that he is the first decent skilled forward prospect that follows a very long gap of having nothing is what magnifies this in the eyes of some fans who are anxious for a youth movement. The pipeline behind Sven looks a little more promising, and IMO, prospects will get their opportunities at a more regular pace. (Yes I know moon, nothing indicates the drafting or the prospect pool has improved in your eyes. It has in mine.)

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Feel free to put me on ignore, or simply dissregard my posts.

Good advice. *slowly backs away*