[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Are you guys still talking about something that hasn't happened?

Time to get a hobby...

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Are you guys still talking about something that hasn't happened?

Time to get a hobby...

Isn't this a hobby? I think it might be, I don't think I need another one, the Flames take up a lot of my time as it is?

Feel free not to participate in the convo, but for those of us who want to debate about Feaster's comments about Sven being on the bubble, I believe this site was created specifically to facilitate such discussions.

But thanks for siting on your high horse and being the voice of reason, much appreciated.

[stemit14]

Put Sven on a line with backlund and either cammalleri or hudler and you will see how good he really is. Can anyone think of a time since they drafted him where Sven has gotten to play with the most skilled players on the team? I mean ever?! He's barely gotten to play on the powerplay. He's being held back from his potential for some reason.

If its true he has confidence issues than I would attribute it to that. He's constantly told by media, fans, and coaching staff that a lot is expected of him and that he is going to be one of the core players of this team. Then there's a powerplay and he sits on the bench till there's only 25 seconds left. That would make anyone feel like they are under-performing. Coaching staff need to show some faith in the kid. If we are really rebuilding here... Let's actually start building something.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Isn't this a hobby? I think it might be, I don't think I need another one, the Flames take up a lot of my time as it is?

Feel free not to participate in the convo, but for those of us who want to debate about Feaster's comments about Sven being on the bubble, I believe this site was created specifically to facilitate such discussions.

But thanks for siting on your high horse and being the voice of reason, much appreciated.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Overreaction to what is essentially a non-issue.

If Sven wants to be on the Calgary Flames, Sven will pick up the pace. Who here honestly thinks the Flames would keep him down 'just because', or who here thinks it is ruining his development?

The worst thing you can ever do with a prospect is rush him. Sven definitely wants to be part of this team, but if he is not ready, he is simply not ready.

To start pointing fingers at every single person in hockey ops and stating it is their fault for why Sven's development is 'off track', is laughable. Sven being handed a spot on the team without competing and battling for it is a disservice to every other player on the team.

So many of you were hoping one of the coaches since Sutter would bench some of the vets (including the face of the franchise Iginla) for not playing hard every shift, and now you want to hand a rookie that benefit?

As for the Flames development staff and how 'terrible' they are - seems to me Brodie might just be 1st pairing material. Seems to me that Reinhart has been improving. Seems to me that Bouma is a shoe-in (or close). Seems to me that Ferland has dramatically improved. Seems to me a lot of prospects are actually developing in the Flames' organization just fine. I am sure Sven cracks this team making this a HUGE non-issue, and if he doesn't it is because someone else beat him out of it.

Horak came out of nowhere and beat out Stajan who was an established player in this league and one of the few natural centers that the Flames had. Sure some rookies can beat out Sven who has a whole 25 or so games under his belt and has had an inconsistent camp. Let's just wait to see what happens and WHY before we all start getting out our pitchforks.

Sven got sent down last season and he was very disappointed and sulked. His mom asked him why he was sulking and told him it was just part of the process (or something like that). Part of a player maturing. Kids are inconsistent.

[Ring of Fire]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Street hasn't even come close to being a PPG player in the AHL, no way he's top 6 or bust.

What I mean by that is that he has no place on the roster as a 3rd or 4th liner. He's not suited for the role. He is simply an AHL calliper offensive player. If he cannot play well enough to earn a top 6 spot (which he hasn't in my opinion) then he has no business being on an NHL roster.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Sven got sent down last season and he was very disappointed and sulked. His mom asked him why he was sulking and told him it was just part of the process (or something like that). Part of a player maturing. Kids are inconsistent.

All true. Do you have a link re: mama Sven telling the boy to wise up? I remember it but can't find it ...

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ring of Fire

What I mean by that is that he has no place on the roster as a 3rd or 4th liner. He's not suited for the role. He is simply an AHL calliper offensive player. If he cannot play well enough to earn a top 6 spot (which he hasn't in my opinion) then he has no business being on an NHL roster.

I agree. AHL calliper player.

[Vulcan]

I just want to see Sven playing with some other offensive players such as Backlund. Every time I've seen him from the camp in July to Penticton to the pre-season, he's been playing with plumbers. He should finally get his chance if he isn't cut.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by BigRed

All true. Do you have a link re: mama Sven telling the boy to wise up? I remember it but can't find it ...

Managed to find a write-up about it:

http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald...tml?id=8208963

Good quote from Baertschi:

Sounds like Baertschi is growing up before our very eyes.
"The best decision they made was to send me down," he said. "You get rattled, you get caught up in things. You're mad at people. You're mad at yourself. You don't even think about why it actually happened.
"After a little while, I understood."

[robbie111]

If Bear goes to the AHL I hope he gets put with Granlund as his center and it might help Baertschi to play RW because of the better shooting angles coming in. The flames don't have as much skill on RW and could use a little more. Add Ferland to the line (he and Granlund had really great chemistry in Penticton) and you might be able to promote the whole line to the NHL once trades or injuries happen and have a great young line that scores.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I just want to see Sven playing with some other offensive players such as Backlund. Every time I've seen him from the camp in July to Penticton to the pre-season, he's been playing with plumbers. He should finally get his chance if he isn't cut.

He'll get his chance. It wasn't three years ago that fans were raising the same sorts of questions and complaints about Backlund, and many were quick to conclude that it pointed toward incompetence among the Flames coaches and dev'p staff. Here we are in 2013, Backlund is 24-years-old, and one of the leaders of this team. Baertschi is still really, REALLY young, and there is still plenty of room for patience. He was the #13 pick in his draft year, and is among twelve players from that class to play in +25 games. For a kid his age, and at this point in his dev'p, there is no "finally".

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't think any of our coaches or management (besides Burke, perhaps) deserves a pass for anything. I can't trust anything any one in this organization does because of how little success we've found over the last half a decade.

Fans should be questioning things like this.

Why? Because we all know so much better than professional NHL coaches?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Ring of Fire

What I mean by that is that he has no place on the roster as a 3rd or 4th liner. He's not suited for the role. He is simply an AHL calliper offensive player. If he cannot play well enough to earn a top 6 spot (which he hasn't in my opinion) then he has no business being on an NHL roster.

Ya, I wouldn't say he's all 'digital display' or anything.



More like one of these.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by kehatch

The new regime has given prospects plenty of opportunity. Sieloff is going pro. Granlund and Ferland stuck around until nearly the last cut. Brodie should be top 4 this season. An army of prospects got time after the deadline last season.

Seriously, that's your argument? One defenseman, a couple of guys sticking around in camp, a guy sent to AHL?

If Baertchi is cut, the team will have, from our system:
- one top 6 forward in Backlund
- two top 4 defenseman in Brodie and Giordano, one of whom felt he needed to take a year in Russia before getting the deal he deserved from the Flames
- one or two bottom 6 forwards in Monahan and possibly Bouma.

Those are bad numbers for a team in any situation, let alone a team in a rebuild. Personally I'm not worried about it yet, but I think a rational person must admit that there is no proof yet that the Flames development system is any better now than it has been before, or that there is that much room made for our prospects.

The biggest difference between now and the years before is that the guys we're bringing in from outside now are younger. I expect some more room to be made over the season, but if there's one thing we have learned about Feaster, delivering on promises made is not his forte. (Remember how we were supposed to have a younger team last season? And the season before?)

Also, in my eyes Sven Baertchi has done more to earn the benefit of doubt than Jay Feaster or Bob Hartley.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why? Because we all know so much better than professional NHL coaches?

Yeah, I'm generally apt to let the coaches have their say without questioning but watching how Sven has been played this preseason, I have my questions as does Sven.

“I think I got some good opportunities here and there, but it is what it is.

One shift to Gally and you saw what happened. I got scoring chances and stuff.

I played sick against Edmonton. That was my best game so far this pre-season. Playing with (Jiri) Hudler and (T.J.) Galiardi was exciting. I was happy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, I'm generally apt to let the coaches have their say without questioning but watching how Sven has been played this preseason, I have my questions as does Sven.

Sure, but for all but only a handful from among hundreds of NHL players, development is a process that is best characterised as a marathon, and not a sprint. If we are still having this conversation about Baertschi two years from now, then you have a point. But he still qualifies as a rookie, with only 25 games to his credit, and is only 21-years-old. It is extremely premature to be sceptical about the quality and frequency of his opportunities.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

He'll get his chance. It wasn't three years ago that fans were raising the same sorts of questions and complaints about Backlund, and many were quick to conclude that it pointed toward incompetence among the Flames coaches and dev'p staff. Here we are in 2013, Backlund is 24-years-old, and one of the leaders of this team. Baertschi is still really, REALLY young, and there is still plenty of room for patience. He was the #13 pick in his draft year, and is among twelve players from that class to play in +25 games. For a kid his age, and at this point in his dev'p, there is no "finally".

And before that it was Boyd and before that it was Kobasew and Lombardi and before that it was Saprykin. Where are they now? I'm getting tired of all our promising young forwards crapping the bed. After so long I think it's more a problem of team development than problems with the player. That Backlund is turning into a solid pro, and good for him, but it isn't exactly the expectations that most had for him.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Time to relax. Baertschi will be fine. His upside is greater than Lombardi or Boyd.

And the organization has quickly stocked the prospect cupboard. This is all part of the process and things look a lot better now than they did last year.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

And before that it was Boyd and before that it was Kobasew and Lombardi and before that it was Saprykin. Where are they now? I'm getting tired of all our promising young forwards crapping the bed.

From your list I would only concur that Boyd and Saprykin "crapped the bed". Kobasew and Lombardi are both among the top-twenty top producing players from their respective draft years, and Lombardi was a third round pick. Boyd was also a third-round flyer who appears to have performed within range of his drafted peers. I suspect much of the problem here is with fans' expectations more than anything.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

After so long I think it's more a problem of team development than problems with the player. That Backlund is turning into a solid pro, and good for him, but it isn't exactly the expectations that most had for him.

Perhaps this indicates that our expectations as fans were out of line? It's not like Backlund was a lottery pick, but that is a little beside the important point that you raise in your post here:

Is there a problem in the Flames' system?

I would say that the evidence suggests not. The only real "bust" from your list is a player that was selected fourteen years ago under a COMPLETELY different administrative regime, and in a bygone hockey era. Oleg Saprykin's lack of NHL success is irrelevant. Even since Darryl Sutter was fired, it is extremely difficult to know one way or another based on the results whether the Flames' system is effective, not effective, or less effective than it should be. Even if there are problems, chances are high that even the most observant fans possess neither the requisite information nor the expertise to know one way or the other. It's a question that we are certainly in no position to answer, especially at this stage in which the team only quite recently revised the system.