[News] Flames Rookies vs UofC Dinos - September 9, 2013

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The problem with having too many of those fans is no accountability for team management. If fans support the team too fervently through the thin times it eases the urgency of ownership IMO.

There are a few poorly managed teams out there, however that's no excuse to manage the team according to fan expectations.

I don't think that is an issue here as the Flames management has taken steps to raise the bar management-wise ; However in Edmonton I do see a problem "The Big Boys Club". Pretty hard to improve the product up north when they play musical chairs with the management and coaching positions between 2 guys. Pretty sure if most of your fans didn't show up for 10 years these 2 guys would still hang on to their jobs.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by MattyC

for every person wanting Monahan to be Mario Lemieux, there is seems to be at least 3 people that almost want him to bust. How else will we get top picks?!?!

By sending him back to junior, of course!

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So the theory is that if fans are too positive, team ownership, competitive cut-throat business types, will say "whew I guess we are free to crap the bed now".

What an absurd statement.

Owners know that the best thing for business is to win.

That's basically about it. Flames management and ownership\are complacent in the sandbagging of the upcoming season.


It's much easier to be patient with a losing club if you are selling out the building every night, and still selling buttloads of merchanidise. I think the fervent support in Canada allows them to be too patient.

Don't fool yourself. NHL owners aren't all about winning at all costs. If you think the Flames are seriously making any attempt to ice a competitive squad this season you are day dreaming. That's a luxury a team like Nashville doesn't have.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That's basically about it. Flames management and ownership\are complacent in the sandbagging of the upcoming season.

It's much easier to be patient with a losing club if you are selling out the building every night, and still selling buttloads of merchanidise. I think the fervent support in Canada allows them to be too patient.

Don't fool yourself. NHL owners aren't all about winning at all costs. If you think the Flames are seriously making any attempt to ice a competitive squad this season you are day dreaming. That's a luxury a team like Nashville doesn't have.

So is the ability to spend to the cap.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That's basically about it. Flames management and ownership\are complacent in the sandbagging of the upcoming season.


It's much easier to be patient with a losing club if you are selling out the building every night, and still selling buttloads of merchanidise. I think the fervent support in Canada allows them to be too patient.

Don't fool yourself. NHL owners aren't all about winning at all costs. If you think the Flames are seriously making any attempt to ice a competitive squad this season you are day dreaming. That's a luxury a team like Nashville doesn't have.

Too patient? Are you kidding me? By all accounts, the ownership group were essentially forced (kicking and screaming) into a rebuild.

Hiring Burke (which I may not necessarily agree with) is a very LOUD example at how this organization refuses to be a lousy team for a length of time.

As for "not seriously making any attempt to ice a competitive team" - don't let 'tanking' and 'rebuilding' confuse you. If the Flames were tanking, Giordano, Glencross, and a few other vets would not have been retained. MacDonald was retained only because he did fairly well last season, knowing full well that the Flames had Berra and Ramo on the way (promising, but risky).

This organization is not going into full tank-mode. They even acquired some additional vets to beef up the roster, and force competition for the spots. Kids are not going to be simply handed NHL time. They will have to earn it.

You can believe what you want to. Flames will not be a playoff team unless Ramo and/or Berra/Ortio play insane goaltending and some of the kids become high-impact players and basically everything possible going right - but that isn't to say that the Flames are going to be the worst team in the NHL either.

This same fervent support you speak of in Canada is exactly why the Flames refused to rebuild when Darryl was let go. The pressure to win in Canada is very high. Sure, people will come and support you for a longer time in Canada than in some markets in the USA, but that comes with a price as well. Expectations are always high - crowds will boo, and sponsors get a bit angry and may pull the plug on things. Owners like the ones that Flames have are also very competitive and have a lot of pride - they do business in Calgary, and I bet they hear a lot of negative stuff when the team is doing poorly.

It isn't so black and white like you picture. The most important thing is to do the job right, and if that means you aren't competitive for a few seasons, than so be it. Tough to rebuild a team from FA signings - best players go to the best teams usually. Buying up all the FA's in one off-season likely puts you in cap trouble and with holes on your roster anyways.

No team is 'patient' in a rebuild.. although the Oilers are sure showing a lot of patience up there.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The owners are rebuilding and still set the expectation to make the playoffs. Some part of 15-20 million dollars are available potentially for moves that make sense.

It is not like the old days where throwing contracts at veterans is the answer. As Mario said, it is a young man's game now. So they have beefed up the scouting department and hockey ops, strengthening their abilities in talent assessment.

Call me an optimist but I am intrigued by the process and the progress they make this year. Burke wasn't brought in to simply wait to see how the current management's investments mature. I think he is another strong voice who is not afraid to make tough decisions.

They have top 6 wingers - Cammalleri, Glencross, Hudler and Baertschi/Stempniak. Down the middle, Stajan is a solid 2nd line C if Backlund can make the jump to top line. That 3rd line C who contains the other team has been an issue. Hopefully Knight is ready sooner than later.

The team could be competitive if Hartley has them firing on all cylinders. Big if, though. It really comes down to cohesiveness and consistency.

And Burke will be influential internally. I do not see him as a guy who would have kept Bouwmeester and Butler should keep his head up this year.

Having Monahan and Jankowski (if he develops well) makes it interesting, maybe not immediately but in the next few years.

Burke likes to build from the D out. If he has influence, I could see some roster moves in a reverse Phaneuf trade manner.

Again, call me am optimist, but I think this year will be exciting.

[Ashasx]

FWIW, the Oilers lost to the Golden Bears last night.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

FWIW, the Oilers lost to the Golden Bears last night.

Well, you want organizational consistency from top to bottom, so they might as well get the kids as used to losing as possible as early as possible. 0-4 is a good start.

[Wastedyouth]

I think they lose to the Golden Bears every year. GB are one of the best CIS teams in the country.

The Flames Rookies may have very well lost to that team.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I think they lose to the Golden Bears every year. GB are one of the best CIS teams in the country.

The Flames Rookies may have very well lost to that team.

But they didn't, the Oilers did. The same as they lost to every other team of prospects, including the Flames.

In short: HAHA Stupid Oilers.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I think they lose to the Golden Bears every year. GB are one of the best CIS teams in the country.

The Flames Rookies may have very well lost to that team.

In the last 23 games the Oilers are 10-13 against the Bears. I do agree that CIS teams are better then what they are given credit for.

[jiginla12]

Didn't know where to post this but I ran into Mike Cammalleri and Lance Bouma at the U of C today, they're all here for fitness performance testing! and Roger Millions and Jermaine Franklin too!

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Robbob

In the last 23 games the Oilers are 10-13 against the Bears. I do agree that CIS teams are better then what they are given credit for.

If you look at the stats of like the Bears top 7-8 forwards, they were all point per game or higher in the WHL before going to University and they are in their mid twenties.

I'm pretty sure the world junior team plays a warm up game against some eastern university every year, and they lose a lot of the time.

University hockey is pretty good hockey.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That's basically about it. Flames management and ownership\are complacent in the sandbagging of the upcoming season.


It's much easier to be patient with a losing club if you are selling out the building every night, and still selling buttloads of merchanidise. I think the fervent support in Canada allows them to be too patient.

Don't fool yourself. NHL owners aren't all about winning at all costs. If you think the Flames are seriously making any attempt to ice a competitive squad this season you are day dreaming. That's a luxury a team like Nashville doesn't have.

...Oil stain in here preaching the losing mentality, wonder why..
I don't buy it. I do believe the Oilers thought if they could hang around the bottom for a few years they would end up with a stacked team. The only problem is they really didn't know what they were building; But to imply that NHL owners are not about winning at all costs is just a silly way to justify the Oilers current losing mentality.

For the record, Feaster has been on record saying that he disagrees with the way they do things up north. Burke stated while in Toronto that he doesn't support tanking. I also recall Hartley commenting on the dangers of losing mentality... Bob Hartley actually has four championship rings with four different teams in four different leagues, so to assume the Flames are going to adopt a losing attitude just so we can hang around the bottom like the oilers do is very naive. We may have some growing pains but I doubt very highly Burke has the patience to sit around the bottom and he sure isn't going to follow the oilers way of doing things.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

But to imply that NHL owners are not about winning at all costs is just a silly way to justify the Oilers current losing mentality.

I'm not sure how many owners are about winning at all costs. It clearly isn't all of them. Some of them are about making money at all costs. The late Wirtz is a prime example of such. When the Ontario Teacher's Pension Union owned the Maple Leafs you can sure as heck bet that they didn't buy it to bring the Leafs to glory. They bought it because it was a great investment.

I would suggest the win at all costs owner is in the minority and we wouldn't have a salary cap if that wasn't the case.

For the record, Feaster has been on record saying that he disagrees with the way they do things up north .

Feaster is on record saying a lot of things. “You know what? I look forward to the Battle of Alberta for the next X number of years. If the idea is, ‘Burn it to the ground,’ then Ken can find another manager to do it.” -Feaster

If his word was something dearly important to him, he'd have probably resigned last season.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

University hockey is pretty good hockey.

It's very underrated and not widely recognized for being the highest level of amateur hockey in Canada.

Pretty darn good value at $15 a game.