Olbermann does a segment on whether "the money" is getting scared and the potential impact on Russia.
Hilariously, Olbermann's been on for like a month after declaring he wouldn't have politics on the show and hey look gay rights speech. But I guess there was no way around it on this issue.
Weir talks to Olbermann on Fox Sports about why he doesn't want a boycott. For me it sounds an awful lot like "I want to go and win a medal so we shouldn't boycott", which isn't a particularly strong basis for the conclusion, imo, but whatevs. The thing that irks is the whole "it would be such an empowering and inspiring experience for Russian gays to see wonderful ME, the gay figure skater, competing" line of reasoning, because I doubt that'll particularly comfort anyone who's in hiding as a result of Russian policy and political sanction of bigotry.
Last edited by 19Yzerman19; 09-10-2013 at 09:23 AM.
Olbermann does a segment on whether "the money" is getting scared and the potential impact on Russia.
Hilariously, Olbermann's been on for like a month after declaring he wouldn't have politics on the show and hey look gay rights speech. But I guess there was no way around it on this issue.
Weir talks to Olbermann on Fox Sports about why he doesn't want a boycott. For me it sounds an awful lot like "I want to go and win a medal so we shouldn't boycott", which isn't a particularly strong basis for the conclusion, imo, but whatevs. The thing that irks is the whole "it would be such an empowering and inspiring experience for Russian gays to see wonderful ME, the gay figure skater, competing" line of reasoning, because I doubt that'll particularly comfort anyone who's in hiding as a result of Russian policy and political sanction of bigotry.
I do really feel for the athletes in a situation like this. They train non-stop to be the best that they can be for the Olympics and then politics step in and potentially force them to make a hard decision. It would be hard for any of them to then say "yeah, I'm okay with not going and not having a chance to fulfill my life's dream... Maybe I'll still be able to do it in 4 years".
I'm sure most of them want to say that and they want to say "As an Olympian I know that this event is about making humanity as a whole better and not just about me trying to win a shiny object - go ahead with the boycott and try to force the host country to treat its citizens better".
It will be interesting to see if the boycott idea gains momentum.
If a former Olympian like Johnny Weir who is gay and perhaps one of the most Flamboyant and outspoken figure skaters in the US says i wouldn't support a boycott.
A 3 time US champion should have a more prominent voice to listen to then just some non Olympian member of the general public who doesn't have to put their body and mind through the demands it takes to just get to the Olympics.
That is more than good enough for me.
When i hear openly gay athletes like Mark Tewksbury. Olympic Champion and Calgarian voice his opinion on not supporting boycotting that is more than enough for me.
A Gold, Silver and Bronze Olympic winner should have a voice to listen to.
We should not forget this is the athletes games not ours. We are merely viewers who cheer for our countries.
Participating in the Olympics as a gay athlete and hetero athletes supporting gay athletes will be a victory over Russian delegates.
Boycotting will prove and show the Russian Government at the Olympics nothing.
Participating and speaking will win much more support.
As for a Rainbow patch on jerseys... It is against the IOC competition rules to don anything on a Countries apparel when competing other than their flag or colors. Sponsor logo i believe can only be those that have deemed official sponsors of the Olympics.
Athletes could make a statement in various sports with a Rainbow flag or something as they warm up or after the competition is over.
The biggest statement they can make is speaking, including within their media interviews comments about gay athletes being able to compete on an equal stage.
Fyi Tewksbury was chosen as Canada's chef de mission for the 2012 Summer team and is an amazing inspiring public speaker who if you ever get the chance hear you should.
And i am a Christian so religion should not be the focus in this topic. It is sad to see that this thread has taken a right turn off course and religion becomes the focus of bitterness.
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Last edited by Stay Golden; 09-10-2013 at 11:10 AM.
A 3 time US champion should have a more prominent voice to listen to then just some non Olympian member of the general public who doesn't have to put their body and mind through the demands it takes to just get to the Olympics. That is more than good enough for me. When i hear openly gay athletes like Mark Tewksbury. Olympic Champion and Calgarian voice his opinion on not supporting boycotting that is more than enough for me. A Gold, Silver and Bronze Olympic winner should have a voice to listen to.
You could not have more blatantly provided an example of a fallacious argument from authority than the above quoted statement. It baffles me that people think this is a reasonable way to look at things.
Whether or not he's right depends on the content of his argument, not whether he's particularly good at doing crazy spinny jumpy things on ice wearing shoes with blades on them.
If a former Olympian like Johnny Weir who is gay and perhaps one of the most Flamboyant and outspoken figure skaters in the US says i wouldn't support a boycott.
A 3 time US champion should have a more prominent voice to listen to then just some non Olympian member of the general public who doesn't have to put their body and mind through the demands it takes to just get to the Olympics.
That is more than good enough for me.
When i hear openly gay athletes like Mark Tewksbury. Olympic Champion and Calgarian voice his opinion on not supporting boycotting that is more than enough for me.
A Gold, Silver and Bronze Olympic winner should have a voice to listen to.
We should not forget this is the athletes games not ours. We are merely viewers who cheer for our countries.
Participating in the Olympics as a gay athlete and hetero athletes supporting gay athletes will be a victory over Russian delegates.
Boycotting will prove and show the Russian Government at the Olympics nothing.
Participating and speaking will win much more support.
As for a Rainbow patch on jerseys... It is against the IOC competition rules to don anything on a Countries apparel when competing other than their flag or colors. Sponsor logo i believe can only be those that have deemed official sponsors of the Olympics.
Athletes could make a statement in various sports with a Rainbow flag or something as they warm up or after the competition is over.
The biggest statement they can make is speaking, including within their media interviews comments about gay athletes being able to compete on an equal stage.
Fyi Tewksbury was chosen as Canada's chef de mission for the 2012 Summer team and is an amazing inspiring public speaker who if you ever get the chance hear you should. And i am a Christian so religion should not be the focus in this topic. It is sad to see that this thread has taken a right turn off course and religion becomes the focus of bitterness.
You need to read more closely. Religion has not become the focus of bitterness in any way. Bigotry has become the focus of bitterness, religion only came into play because korzym attempted to paint Christians as victims, when the only people being denounced are bigots like himself.
As for the rest of it, athletes should certainly have input, but their opinions should not be determinative. Human rights issues trump the right of someone to compete in a sporting event. A boycott may not be the best way to address these human rights issues, but it should be on the table as a potential course of action.
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You could not have more blatantly provided an example of a fallacious argument from authority than the above quoted statement. It baffles me that people think this is a reasonable way to look at things.
Whether or not he's right depends on the content of his argument, not whether he's particularly good at doing crazy spinny jumpy things on ice wearing shoes with blades on them.
the ultimate decision to boycott should be solely in the athletes hands and their countries athletic organization's and not the general public's own agenda driven opinions. No matter what side of the fence that is.
the ultimate decision to boycott should be solely in the athletes hands and their countries athletic organization's and not the general public's own agenda driven opinions. No matter what side of the fence that is.
No, sorry but that's garbage. Athlete's should not drive policy on issues of human rights. That's ridiculous.
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I don't support a boycott of the Olympics however if individual athletes wish to boycott, that's their right.
I also support individual athletes who wish to wear a rainbow patch on their uniform... but it should be left up to the individual to make that decision.
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No, sorry but that's garbage. Athlete's should not drive policy on issues of human rights. That's ridiculous.
If this was a march for human rights i would fully agree, but if boycotting the Olympics becomes the answer then this becomes about the Athletes, all the athletes in the Sochi Olympics.
If this was solely about human rights violated by the Russians with their mob beatings of gays and denouncing gay athletes. That atrocity is entirely different then forcing gay and non gay athletes to boycott their Olympic games by politicians.
I have no doubt in my mind that several athletes from around the world will show solidarity and make several statements at Sochi.
The statement made in 1968 with Tommie Smith and John Carlos wearing OPHR badges and black gloves fists was a statement still discussed and honored to this day.
If they would have boycotted the world would have never known what they stood for and against.
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Last edited by Stay Golden; 09-10-2013 at 11:43 AM.
We should not forget this is the athletes games not ours. We are merely viewers who cheer for our countries.
Participating in the Olympics as a gay athlete and hetero athletes supporting gay athletes will be a victory over Russian delegates.
Boycotting will prove and show the Russian Government at the Olympics nothing.
...
Athletes could make a statement in various sports with a Rainbow flag or something as they warm up or after the competition is over.
The biggest statement they can make is speaking, including within their media interviews comments about gay athletes being able to compete on an equal stage.
There are a number of ideas you are putting out there that I simply do not agree with.
First off, the Olympics do not belong to the athletes and we are not obligated to ignore global issues so that said athletes can perform whatever tasks in whatever fashion to try to gain an award. Global issues and politics have always been a part of the Olympic games and that should not magically change because it is 2014. These athletes are going to the games to represent a nation and likely using the nation's money to train, travel, etc. These athletes are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to represent our nation and you are confusing that with some notion that we as a nation are obligated to send these athletes to play in the games regardless of what is happening in the world.
The biggest statement that any country can make is to boycott the games in objection to something that they feel is wrong about the host country. There is a documented history about Olympic boycotts and threats to boycott that implemented change.
Boycotting the games should not be an individual choice. All that does is make the individual look like a quitter as the rest of the team goes forward to compete. Either the entire team and nation should demonstrate unity in the stance of boycotting the games or not.
Going to the games and having people speak on the issue is a good secondary course of action but it is really just "fluff" in comparison to having an entire country and all of its athletes, sponsors, TV broadcasts, etc. stay out of the games.
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Except as discussed in the off topic version of this thread, a boycott would be small as there are only a handful of nations that have legalized same sex marriage across the board, and seeing how Canada is one of the biggest nations on the list (and we don't exactly drive sponsorship dollars) , that should tell you how small of an impact that would really be, especially when you consider that the vast majority of Russia is in favor of this law. In my opinion the miniscule chance of a boycott having any effect on the law (actually I'd say there is ZERO chance), is not worth the sacrifice the athletes would have to make, throwing away their life's work.
The boycott argument has been discussed to death in the other thread. Go bump that one.
Except as discussed in the off topic version of this thread, a boycott would be small as there are only a handful of nations that have legalized same sex marriage across the board, and seeing how Canada is one of the biggest nations on the list (and we don't exactly drive sponsorship dollars) , that should tell you how small of an impact that would really be, especially when you consider that the vast majority of Russia is in favor of this law. In my opinion the miniscule chance of a boycott having any effect on the law (actually I'd say there is ZERO chance), is not worth the sacrifice the athletes would have to make, throwing away their life's work.
The boycott argument has been discussed to death in the other thread. Go bump that one.
Let's get over this ridiculous idea that the athletes are sacrificing anything. They aren't entitled to go to the Olympics. They may have the opportunity to go if their country chooses to send them. That's it.
The impact of a boycott is debatable, but I'm really sick of people advancing the rights of athletes to compete in a sport above basic human rights.
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Let's get over this ridiculous idea that the athletes are sacrificing anything. They aren't entitled to go to the Olympics. They may have the opportunity to go if their country chooses to send them. That's it.
The impact of a boycott is debatable, but I'm really sick of people advancing the rights of athletes to compete in a sport above basic human rights.
Here we go again.
You're not picking between the right to continue their life long career (a much more apt description than you gave it. This isn't a game of shinny) vs a basic human right.
You're picking the right to continue their life long career over the right of our government to voice our displeasure with a law that a country who couldn't care less about our opinion has put into place.
Are there any regulations against players wearing rainbow coloured skate laces? If not, I think that would be the best display as it would get everyone talking about them during broadcasts.
You're not picking between the right to continue their life long career (a much more apt description than you gave it. This isn't a game of shinny) vs a basic human right.
You're picking the right to continue their life long career over the right of our government to voice our displeasure with a law that a country who couldn't care less about our opinion has put into place.
And you're making the assumption, with absolutely no basis besides your opinion, that a boycott will have no impact.
And don't give me this life long career garbage. Olympic participation does not make or break a life long career, it is simply one portion of an athletic career, one that typically doesn't even pay enough to cover costs of living. Missing the Olympics would mean missing a very big event in an athletic career, it doesn't prevent the continuation of that career in any way.
And, besides all of that, this isn't even about the likelihood of Russia reversing course based upon a boycott. This is about Canada, or any other country, making a statement that they do not want to be party to an event staged by a corrupt nation that promotes and stands behind such laws.
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Wave Rainbow flags, wear Rainbow T shirts, speak about equality but boycotting will solve or accomplish nothing.
The uninformed masses won't know, won't care and won't remember.
But if any athlete or trainers do not want to make a visual or vocal statement then they shouldn't be held to that.
If the athletes said we are boycotting they should not be forced to participate in the Olympics just the same as if International governments said we are boycotting you can not go.
The Olympics are not the UN they are not Global Summit meetings. They are the Ultimate Global Athletic Event. They are sports at it's highest. They are for the athletes so yes in this instance an exception should be considered the decision should have the input of the athletes and their organizations.
Athletes have competed under the flag of the Olympics.
Maybe that is what the athletes and trainers should do if their country says we are boycotting.
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Last edited by Stay Golden; 09-10-2013 at 01:06 PM.
Except as discussed in the off topic version of this thread, a boycott would be small as there are only a handful of nations that have legalized same sex marriage across the board, and seeing how Canada is one of the biggest nations on the list (and we don't exactly drive sponsorship dollars) , that should tell you how small of an impact that would really be, especially when you consider that the vast majority of Russia is in favor of this law. In my opinion the miniscule chance of a boycott having any effect on the law (actually I'd say there is ZERO chance), is not worth the sacrifice the athletes would have to make, throwing away their life's work.
The boycott argument has been discussed to death in the other thread. Go bump that one.
So because Canada boycotting the games wouldn't break the Russian bank we shouldn't do it? That isn't really the kind of thinking that ever leads to making changes in the world. I highly doubt that any of the nations throughout history that have boycotted an Olympic games did so based on the financial impact they hoped to make to the host country.
While I agree that America would have a much larger impact with a boycott and the idea of America applying that financial pressure onto Russia is much more interesting, I still feel that *if* Canada as a nation objects to what is going on in Russia that we should boycott the games and make our own statement without "Big Brother USA" holding our hands.
