Would you support Rainbow on Hockey Unis for Sochi?

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

LMAO with the look of those jerseys I'm not sure that the LGBT wants to have the rainbow flag associated with the jersey.

Proves that neither Team Canada nor Nike have gay men working for them.

[korzym12]

Catholic bishop warns against rise of anti-Christian bigotry in U.S.

BISHOP PAPROCKI ON ANTI-CATHOLIC BIGOTRY:
WILLIAM J. KELLY: Same sex marriage, abortion - whenever these issues are discussed in the media or entertainment industry – you typically hear people suggesting that the Catholic position or the conservative position on these issues is a bigoted position.
How would you recommend that Catholics respond to that characterization of a traditional Catholic teaching? Because, of course, in America today, the greatest sin that someone can accuse you of is being a bigot and that is precisely the way the media is labeling Catholics who hold these traditional views.
BISHOP PAPROCKI: We have to continue to offer a very articulate, reasoned approach to our understanding, particularly in the area of marriage. Those that talk about this as an issue of equality and discrimination and if you don’t agree with that it’s a bigoted point-of-view – that that’s simply an erroneous viewpoint. And not let them box us into that by painting us as bigots. But I think we have to do the best we can to refute that.
I think some of the people that have been very articulate in refuting this have been members of the black community, African Americans who resent, frankly, depicting this as a civil rights issue. They say, “I have no choice over the color of my skin.” Whereas the way we live our lives - in terms of our sexual activity – we do have choices over that.

Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.c...#ixzz2eKlsSdLs

[polak]

And just like that, he paints himself as a bigot.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by korzym12

Catholic bishop warns against rise of anti-Christian bigotry in U.S.

Awesome how he uses African Americans as a shield. A lot of so-called christians (especially in the US) seem to think they're part of the most oppressed group around. It's simply not true, but it helps to paint yourself as the victim so they do it.

[hayduke's dad]

No let the athletes compete leave the politics for politics

[MolsonInBothHands]

Why would anyone choose to be treated as a second class citizen? If it was a choice to be gay, and it was easy to flip that choice, who in their right mind would subject themselves to the treatment homophobes dish out?

Bigotry, on the other hand, is a choice.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Why would anyone choose to be treated as a second class citizen? If it was a choice to be gay, and it was easy to flip that choice, who in their right mind would subject themselves to the treatment homophobes dish out?

Bigotry, on the other hand, is a choice.

I think this is a fine line here, and it's not as simple as people make it out to be.

But I agree with the bishop that said it is not the same as the fight for civil rights for blacks.

The one big difference between being gay and being black is if you are gay you do choose to let people know you are gay. If you are black you have no choice, people know before you open your mouth.

I don't think it's right to look down on gays for being gay, but I also don't think it's fair to black history to compare these struggles for equality.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Hey Korzym12...when did you choose to be straight?

Oh you say you were born that way?

Enough said

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I think this is a fine line here, and it's not as simple as people make it out to be.

But I agree with the bishop that said it is not the same as the fight for civil rights for blacks.

The one big difference between being gay and being black is if you are gay you do choose to let people know you are gay. If you are black you have no choice, people know before you open your mouth.

I don't think it's right to look down on gays for being gay, but I also don't think it's fair to black history to compare these struggles for equality.

The two struggles for equality are not the same but they are still struggles for equality. LGBT, to this day, still face immense challenges...even in Canada. LGBT are disproportionately more likely to be homeless, depressed, bullied, drug addicted, have eating disorders, and commit suicide than the non-LGBT community. We still need champions for LGBT even here in Canada. Having hockey players take a stand on behalf of LGBT rights would send a clear message of acceptance.

Gays and lesbians around the world are not asking for "special rights" or anything that straight people don't have. All we seek is the comfort of knowing that we won't be bullied for being who we are, to walk down the road holding our partner's hand without getting insulted, and to have our relationships recognized to be as valid as everybody else's.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I think this is a fine line here, and it's not as simple as people make it out to be.

But I agree with the bishop that said it is not the same as the fight for civil rights for blacks.

The one big difference between being gay and being black is if you are gay you do choose to let people know you are gay. If you are black you have no choice, people know before you open your mouth.

I don't think it's right to look down on gays for being gay, but I also don't think it's fair to black history to compare these struggles for equality.

Saying two things aren't exactly the same is just pointing out the obvious.

Why is the fact that it's easier to hide being gay relevant, and what about that difference actually makes it unfair to compare the struggles for equality?

The only thing I can think of it it makes it easier for the bigotry to last longer since it can be more hidden, but I doubt that's what you were thinking of.

You seem to have a point here but haven't actually made it.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

The two struggles for equality are not the same but they are still struggles for equality. LGBT, to this day, still face immense challenges...even in Canada. LGBT are disproportionately more likely to be homeless, depressed, bullied, drug addicted, have eating disorders, and commit suicide than the non-LGBT community. We still need champions for LGBT even here in Canada. Having hockey players take a stand on behalf of LGBT rights would send a clear message of acceptance.

Gays and lesbians around the world are not asking for "special rights" or anything that straight people don't have. All we seek is the comfort of knowing that we won't be bullied for being who we are, to walk down the road holding our partner's hand without getting insulted, and to have our relationships recognized to be as valid as everybody else's.

I get the fight, I am not saying they should be treated any differently than anyone else.

But the struggle for blacks was worse and it's not something that can be argued with any intelligence.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I get the fight, I am not saying they should be treated any differently than anyone else.

But the struggle for blacks was worse and it's not something that can be argued with any intelligence.

Ask Matthew Shepard if the struggle for LGBT rights is any easier than the fight for equality for the African American community. Oh yeah...you can't.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. There is no better or worse forms of discrimination. LGBT are being killed around the world for no other reason than being who they are.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Ask Matthew Shepard if the struggle for LGBT rights is any easier than the fight for equality for the African American community. Oh yeah...you can't.

That is a stupid argument. Blacks were killed en masse. They were slaves. They had zero freedom.

It was not a fight for equality, they for for basic freedom.

Fighting for Gay equality is more comparable to fighting for women's equality.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I get the fight, I am not saying they should be treated any differently than anyone else.

But the struggle for blacks was worse and it's not something that can be argued with any intelligence.

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

That is a stupid argument. Blacks were killed en masse. They were slaves. They had zero freedom.

It was not a fight for equality, they for for basic freedom.

Fighting for Gay equality is more comparable to fighting for women's equality.

Why do we have to compare the discrimination and say one is worse than another? Is it a contest?

To a person who is being discriminated against for any reason, it is an awful and deeply traumatic event. We have a responsibility to stand up against discrimination of any sort.

By saying one form of discrimination is worse, you are minimizing the impact of a discrimination that has taken thousands of beautiful, innocent lives from this earth.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Why do we have to compare the discrimination and say one is worse than another? Is it a contest?

To a person who is being discriminated against for any reason, it is an awful and deeply traumatic event. We have a responsibility to stand up against discrimination of any sort.

By saying one form of discrimination is worse, you are minimizing the impact of a discrimination that has taken thousands of beautiful, innocent lives from this earth.

because it was worse!

Gays are fighting for stuff like the right to be married here.

Blacks were fighting for the right of freedom, to live without being someone's property.

When gays are being bought and sold like farm animals, I might actually take you seriously.

I agree that all discrimination is bad, but some is most definitely worse than others. By comparing gay rights to the fight black freedom completely trivializes their plight.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

But the struggle for blacks was worse and it's not something that can be argued with any intelligence.

That depends on one's definition of worse and where one is.. how many countries are re-introducing laws that condone slavery?

But that's not the point that the bishop was making. The bishop was saying that some in the black community resent the issue being depicted as a civil rights issue, that sexual activity is a matter of choice unlike skin colour.

Which in my opinion is at best a complete dodge (by ignoring sexual attraction and just focusing on activity), and at worst the often brought up view that people somehow choose to be homosexual.

So you agree with the bishop you say, do you agree with him that it is not a civil rights issue at all (regardless of how much better or worse)?

EDIT: The whole same/worse thing is a red herring.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by photon

That depends on one's definition of worse and where one is.. how many countries are re-introducing laws that condone slavery?

But that's not the point that the bishop was making. The bishop was saying that some in the black community resent the issue being depicted as a civil rights issue, that sexual activity is a matter of choice unlike skin colour.

Which in my opinion is at best a complete dodge (by ignoring sexual attraction and just focusing on activity), and at worst the often brought up view that people somehow choose to be homosexual.

So you agree with the bishop you say, do you agree with him that it is not a civil rights issue at all (regardless of how much better or worse)?

EDIT: The whole same/worse thing is a red herring.

the Bishop is right.

All sexual activity is a choice. Sexual preference may not be, but actually participating in (consenting) sexual activity is most definitely a choice.

It comes down to this. Two guys walk down the street, one is black and one is white. You ask someone to point out the black man, everyone can. You ask someone to point out the gay man, they can only guess or make assumptions. That is a significant difference.

Comparing the 2 fights is insulting to those who fought for black liberation.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

because it was worse!

Gays are fighting for stuff like the right to be married here.

Blacks were fighting for the right of freedom, to live without being someone's property.

When gays are being bought and sold like farm animals, I might actually take you seriously.

I agree that all discrimination is bad, but some is most definitely worse than others. By comparing gay rights to the fight black freedom completely trivializes their plight.

I believe that you were the one who was comparing gay rights to racial equality. My exact words were "The two struggles for equality are not the same but they are still struggles for equality."

Both the black community and LGBT community have faced deep systemic discrimination. There is no better and there is no worse in terms of discrimination.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I believe that you were the one who was comparing gay rights to racial equality. My exact words were "The two struggles for equality are not the same but they are still struggles for equality."

Both the black community and LGBT community have faced deep systemic discrimination. There is no better and there is no worse in terms of discrimination.

One was not a struggle for equality though, it was a struggle for freedom. Calling it a struggle for equality is quite frankly insulting.