Would you support Rainbow on Hockey Unis for Sochi?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The part I believe is being blown out of proportion is the reaction I am getting for this belief. If the majority does not have the ability to grasp why I believe what I do, then that is very sad.

The problem is not that people don't understand your argument. The problem is that people have rejected your argument.

You say we can't pass judgment without understanding their thinking? I say we already understand their thinking. It wasn't all that much long ago that our society itself thought the same.

Just about the only thing you are right about here is that we can't force another culture to grow up. But we certainly can highlight and express our disdain for that culture's backwards beliefs.

Whether athletes can or should make any sort of formal protest is a fair question - and I certainly agree that the IOC will act to stop any such expression it is made aware of - but lets not pretend that people are wrong for wanting to make that expression because it might upset Russian cultural sensitivities.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

It's a good point Beef makes...where does the COC and IOC's jurisdiction end on uniforms.

Wherever they say it does?

[iggy4life]

No if players want to comment on the law fine. no patch or boycott needed. People didn't get this up in arms about human rights when china hosted the olympics. this china issue way worse than the russian issue imo

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by iggy4life

No if players want to comment on the law fine. no patch or boycott needed. People didn't get this up in arms about human rights when china hosted the olympics. this china issue way worse than the russian issue imo

People did get up in arms about human rights when China hosted the olympics. Just because there might not have been a thread on CP does not make it so.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by iggy4life

No if players want to comment on the law fine. no patch or boycott needed. People didn't get this up in arms about human rights when china hosted the olympics. this china issue way worse than the russian issue imo

They absolutely did, where were you? The abuse of Tibet, religious minorities, prison without trial, re-education through labour, etc. There were protests during the entire length of the games. Most western nations compared it to Hitler's games in 1936 (much like is being done with Russia's games). Plus, the 'china was worse so we can't complain about Russia' argument is banal and frankly ignorant. China also never had a policy where you could be jailed just for your genetics.

Besides, it's a patch we're talking about, I don't see how that's being "up in arms"..... oh, did you mean the patch would go on the upper arm? I guess it could. Great idea!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by iggy4life

No if players want to comment on the law fine. no patch or boycott needed. People didn't get this up in arms about human rights when china hosted the olympics. this china issue way worse than the russian issue imo

As noted people did complain, but even if they didn't it really doesn't matter. This idea that previous passivity means an inability to then protest in the future has to be the dumbest position I've ever heard. This position basically guarantees that nothing, and I do mean nothing, could ever have changed in the history of the world. Didn't protest for women's right to vote last year? Can't do it now. Didn't protest the slave trade a decade ago? Can't do it now. Didn't fight back against those damned Romans coming in and pushing you around? Can't do it now.

It's just plain idiotic.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by iggy4life

No if players want to comment on the law fine. no patch or boycott needed. People didn't get this up in arms about human rights when china hosted the olympics. this china issue way worse than the russian issue imo

..and for the 20th time, not protesting something else at same other time is the stupidest reason imaginable to not protest anything going forward.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I agree that you aren't a troll. I accept that you are a bigot who is quite honestly expressing his viewpoint. But I also laugh at the fact that you are lying to yourself when you say people aren't getting an emotional response from you. You wouldn't be here defending your petty hatred and intolerance over and over if it wasn't emotionally important to you.

Disagreed. He is definitely a troll. He might not be doing it on purpose but he is living under the bridge all the same. Scroll back and read the conversation again. Most of the time he outright ignores comments made to him, dodges questions and deflects logic by making ridiculously unrelated statements that in some imaginary way "validate" his "point".

-- "The way Russia oppresses the gays is bad"
--- "No it isn't, you live in Canada, which is beside America, and America does bad things, so you cannot judge Russia"
-- "uh... that has nothing to do with the topic"
--- "Things are happening in Syria too, which means you cannot have an opinion about Russia"
-- "..."

It is classic trolling from before people realized they could be trolls on purpose. The more you feed it, the worse it gets.

[Resolute 14]

I would agree his arguments are functionally indistinguishable from trolling, but also that it is not his actual intention. Religion (and lets face it, that is where this comes from) is notorious for simply ignoring arguments that don't fit its view.

Originally Posted by iggy4life

No if players want to comment on the law fine. no patch or boycott needed. People didn't get this up in arms about human rights when china hosted the olympics. this china issue way worse than the russian issue imo

Actually, there were so many protests that the IOC outlawed global torch runs after 2008.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by iggy4life

No if players want to comment on the law fine. no patch or boycott needed. People didn't get this up in arms about human rights when china hosted the olympics. this china issue way worse than the russian issue imo

Not that i am grouping you in with this poster, but the fact "korzym12" is the only poster giving you thanks should make you want to read up on the protests for China during olympics.

Sadly, considering the things i have read from "korzym12" in this thread, if he agreed with something i posted, i would probably take it down.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I would agree his arguments are functionally indistinguishable from trolling, but also that it is not his actual intention. Religion (and lets face it, that is where this comes from) is notorious for simply ignoring arguments that don't fit its view.

I'm not entirely convinced that he is not actually trolling. The fact that he keeps coming back for more and escalating instigating comments.

Originally Posted by korzym12

Come on you made that way too easy for me.

Originally Posted by korzym12

You think you have the right to question me? LOL WEAK westerner.

At least Beef tried to justify his position, engage in other people's ideas/comments and showed real frustration when it didn't go anywhere.

[Itse]

For those who don't think international pressure has an effect:

http://americablog.com/2013/08/russi...-olympics.html

Reflecting growing apparently turmoil in the Kremlin and the Russian legislature, a Russian legislator claimed today that Russia will not jail gay Olympic athletes and guests during the 2104 Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia.

Of course, this doesn't mean that protests should stop. On the contrary.

there’s no apparent word from the Russians, or the IOC, on whether the Russian authorities plan to continue letting vigilante groups kidnap and torture, on film, during the Olympic Games. So far, the Russians have shown no interest in arresting the perpetrators, who lure gay teens via Russian social media sites.

"Russian vigilantes show off a young gay boy they claim to have abducted and then doused with urine after entrapping him via a gay social media site."

For some more reference:

http://www.advocate.com/news/world-n...-peoples-homes

"Increase your vigilance when you talk to your neighbors, when you are checking your mail and in elevators," the notice says, according to a translation. "You can easily become a target of homosexual propaganda. There is one step from being homosexual and to start propaganda of homosexualism and molesting decent people."

Watch your neighbours. Always a good healthy suggestion based on reasonable policy.

[Devils'Advocate]

This whole idea of "we shouldn't condemn them without trying to understand why they think this way" seems foolish.

There is no possible explanation for hating people who have done no wrong. None. Zero. So suggesting that I should not condemn their society until understanding why they feel the way they feel is garbage. There is absolutely no possible justification for harassing, abusing, condemning and persecuting innocent people whose only crime is wanting to love somebody. And any society that would even TRY to justify it should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

[SeeBass]

Anybody want to bet that when the World Cup goes to Qatar in 22 there is nowhere near this kind of backlash for the rights of women.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Anybody want to bet that when the World Cup goes to Qatar in 22 there is nowhere near this kind of backlash for the rights of women.

But again, the point is what? You don't like this backlash? You want it to be less?

Sure it may be less in your scenario, but who cares? Let's keep this going.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Anybody want to bet that when the World Cup goes to Qatar in 22 there is nowhere near this kind of backlash for the rights of women.

What kind of person is it that feels the need to play the "Well other bad stuff is happening" card and thinks they're clever for it?

"Hey guys! Genocide happened in Rwanda in 1994. Didnt get up in arms about it? Well, now you can't complain about this! What? You were only 10 in 1994? DOESNT MATTER. Aren't I clever!"

Yeah, we all get it, terrible things happen everywhere. But this is current, and it is outrageous. You know the big difference between women in Qatar and homosexuals in Russia? Only one of them gets put in jail just for being themselves.

[mccalgary71]

This is an issue that is just, very recently, been dealt with in our society. Some places are going to be behind and maybe going backwards. The Russian people will come around. I didn't see the athletes of The Netherlands wearing pot patches to protest our jailing of pot dealers.


Posted from Calgarypuck.com App for Android

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by mccalgary71

I didn't see the athletes of The Netherlands wearing pot patches to protest our jailing of pot dealers.

I think that you should spend some time today thinking about the difference between a person's gender/race/sexuality and a person's choice to sell or possess marijuana.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by mccalgary71

This is an issue that is just, very recently, been dealt with in our society. Some places are going to be behind and maybe going backwards. The Russian people will come around. I didn't see the athletes of The Netherlands wearing pot patches to protest our jailing of pot dealers.


Posted from Calgarypuck.com App for Android

Well that's a new, and utterly ridiculous, comparison.

Does 'they'll come around' seriously seem like a good way to deal with human rights abuses?

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I think that you should spend some time today thinking about the difference between a person's gender/race/sexuality and a person's choice to sell or possess marijuana.

What if they're an addict? Isn't addiction an illness and not a choice? Should we protest countries who jail addicts for drug possession?