Would you support Rainbow on Hockey Unis for Sochi?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Jesus Christ.

Okay I will say this once, because apparently people here are too consumed in their own beliefs to read between the lines just a little.

I DISAGREE WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE.

BUT I REFUSE TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON A SOCIETY WHEN I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THEY THINK HOW THEY DO.

I BELIEVE YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE THINKING BEHIND BELIEFS BEFORE THEY CAN BE CHANGED, BECAUSE NOTHING CHANGES OVER NIGHT.

The part I believe is being blown out of proportion is the reaction I am getting for this belief. If the majority does not have the ability to grasp why I believe what I do, then that is very sad.

Perhaps you are misunderstanding the position of other posters as well? I don't think many, if any, posters are attacking Russia or Russian people (for the record, my entire family is Russian.) What I, and others, are doing is attacking the opinions and attitudes (and its codification in legislation) of some Russians regarding homosexuality. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with expressing that "attack" or disapproval by wearing a rainbow flag?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Fair enough. I missed the context of your comments apparently. So then you wouldn't criticise the Canadian Men's Olympic Hockey Team if they collectively decided (whether by consensus or otherwise) to wear a rainbow on their uniforms in support of the rights of gay persons in Russia?

If every player on the team voted yes to doing it, I would have no problems what so ever. I would even be proud of them.

However I believe this should be up to the individual, not the organization.

[korzym12]

Mr. President, Russia is opposing the US and EU policies, especially with regards to Syria, what would happen were Russia to make a compromise now? Is such a scenario possible?

President Assad: Russian-American relations should not be viewed through the context of the Syrian crisis alone; it should be viewed in a broader and more comprehensive manner. The US presumed that with the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia was perpetually destroyed. After President Putin took office in the late 90s, Russia began to gradually recover and regain its international position; hence the Cold War began again, but in a different and subtler manner.

The US persisted on many fronts: striving to contain Russian interests in the world, attempting to influence the mentality of Russians closer to the West both in terms of culture and aspiration.

-It's pathetic that the original poster's best idea to improve the world is to make an issue out of gay rights, when innocent civilians are being killed in cold blood by terrorists in Syria - supported by the Canadian, U.S., British, and French governments. Featuring the Syrian flag on Olympic uniforms, in support of the Assad government, is the most relevant thing to do in today's world.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by korzym12

-It's pathetic that the original poster's best idea to improve the world is to make an issue out of gay rights, when innocent civilians are being killed in cold blood by terrorists in Syria - supported by the Canadian, U.S., British, and French governments. Featuring the Syrian flag on Olympic uniforms, in support of the Assad government, is the most relevant thing to do in today's world.

I appreciate the worry over Syrian civilians, I really do.

If we forget that the whole notion that we shouldn't do anything about A because there is also a completely unrelated problem B doesn't actually make any sense and, unlike supporting human rights (which the IOC has already declared are not politics by boycotting South Africa) taking a stand on a civil war would be very blatantly against IOC policies...

...you should read up a little more on the situation in Syria.

It's a little bit more complicated.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I think 1 thing is being lost here.

Not every culture embraces the same beliefs. If the overwhelming majority of people in a culture believe something is wrong who are we to argue with that?

The biggest problem I have about our North American culture is the sheer intolerance for anyone who shares different beliefs. It's more or less our way or its wrong, then we preach that intolerance is wrong.

That's such garbage. This isn't intolerance for different beliefs, this is intolerance for criminalizing the simple existence of a group of people. This is intolerance for a regime that allows people to be beaten in the streets for holding hands. So yes, on the topic of granting basic human rights to all people it is more or less our way or it's wrong, as it should be.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by korzym12

It's pathetic that the original poster's best idea to improve the world is to make an issue out of gay rights, when innocent civilians are being killed in cold blood by terrorists in Syria - supported by the Canadian, U.S., British, and French governments. Featuring the Syrian flag on Olympic uniforms, in support of the Assad government, is the most relevant thing to do in today's world.

Ok, like, I SEE you trollin' bro. We all SEE you. We get it. You support the Russian government which prosecutes people for their genetics. You support the Syrian government which has used chemical weapons on civilians. We GET it. You go AGAINST the grain. You're EDGY and you don't apologise to ANYBODY.

But come on, rest up on the trollin'. Go play outside. Scrap book or something. Get a dope hobby.

We all see you. What do you want everyone to say so that you feel you've achieved your ideal level of attention? Name it, we'll all say it, then you can move along.

"I'm proud of you son."

Is this what you've been missing? I'm just going for it, you let me know.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by korzym12

It's pathetic that the original poster's best idea to improve the world is to make an issue out of gay rights, when innocent civilians are being killed in cold blood by terrorists in Syria - supported by the Canadian, U.S., British, and French governments. Featuring the Syrian flag on Olympic uniforms, in support of the Assad government, is the most relevant thing to do in today's world.
[/B]

That's awesome...

When did I ever say that this was the BEST idea ever to improve human rights? And have you listened to any of the MULTIPLE posters that point out the lameness of the argument:

If HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEM X < HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEM Y then DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEM X

There is horrible human suffering all over the world...but I have no problem identifying one issue and discussing it. Even if it is undoubtably less horrible than other situations.

Thus you sir are correct when you argue that there are worse problems in the world. However, its been the general consensus that a problem does not have to be the worst to be worthy of attention.

Russia's Anti-gay legislation, the Olympics and the way Athletes choose to highlight the issue of institutionalized discrimination are the main themes of this conversation.

[korzym12]

Originally Posted by strombad

Ok, like, I SEE you trollin' bro. We all SEE you. We get it. You support the Russian government which prosecutes people for their genetics. You support the Syrian government which has used chemical weapons on civilians. We GET it. You go AGAINST the grain. You're EDGY and you don't apologise to ANYBODY.

But come on, rest up on the trollin'. Go play outside. Scrap book or something. Get a dope hobby.

We all see you. What do you want everyone to say so that you feel you've achieved your ideal level of attention? Name it, we'll all say it, then you can move along.

"I'm proud of you son."

Is this what you've been missing? I'm just going for it, you let me know.

The thread title is "would you support..."

I've stated that I'm firmly against this, stated my reasons, and on the other hand have been attacked for having my own opinion and thinking for myself.

I'm not a troll, as a troll: deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

On the other hand, every time I've said something, it's the gay supporters that seek an emotional response from me and cry when they get ignored.

Owned.

[korzym12]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

That's awesome...

When did I ever say that this was the BEST idea ever to improve human rights? And have you listened to any of the MULTIPLE posters that point out the lameness of the argument:

If HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEM X < HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEM Y then DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEM X

There is horrible human suffering all over the world...but I have no problem identifying one issue and discussing it. Even if it is undoubtably less horrible than other situations.

Thus you sir are correct when you argue that there are worse problems in the world. However, its been the general consensus that a problem does not have to be the worst to be worthy of attention.

Russia's Anti-gay legislation, the Olympics and the way Athletes choose to highlight the issue of institutionalized discrimination are the main themes of this conversation.

Get your own house in order before you meddle with internal affairs of another country. Living in Canada, a country that supports the US acting as al-queda's air force is something to be ashamed of.

Read Dale Carnegie - if you want someone to change, you don't begin with an insult. Likewise - you don't insult the Russians by supporting terrorists attacking Syria, and then expect them to accept radical social views.

[jonesy]

I don't think players on the team can decide anyways. Wouldn't the country they represent have to consent to any signage, rainbow or otherwise?

[calgarybean]

I hope to see athletes choose to step up / support as they decide to and have our Country back them 100% if challenged. As to supporting rainbows on the jersey if it was a C.O.C. decision (think they call the shots), I'd support it but do not see it happening. Think its going to more of a personal athlete statement in Sochi.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by korzym12

The thread title is "would you support..."

I've stated that I'm firmly against this, stated my reasons, and on the other hand have been attacked for having my own opinion and thinking for myself.

I'm not a troll, as a troll: deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

On the other hand, every time I've said something, it's the gay supporters that seek an emotional response from me and cry when they get ignored.

Owned.

In 2013, "gay supporters" should be everyone. IT's really sad that it isn't, but I guess we just have to wait for a certain segment of the population to die out.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by korzym12

I'm not a troll, as a troll: deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

On the other hand, every time I've said something, it's the gay supporters that seek an emotional response from me and cry when they get ignored.

You could even go a whole post without doing it.
Trolllllllin'

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by korzym12

On the other hand, every time I've said something, it's the gay supporters that seek an emotional response from me and cry when they get ignored.
.

I don't see any "gay supporters" but I do see a lot of equal rights supporters.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Seriously, let sports be sports. Why make a bigger issue? So no!

Its easy to say that when it relates to this issue. But what about when players speak about their favorite charitable causes, and raise awareness for said illnesses etc? It's not hockey related, but its obviously alright and respected.

So why not let them lend support to this issue?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I don't think players on the team can decide anyways. Wouldn't the country they represent have to consent to any signage, rainbow or otherwise?

It depends how they do it. They could be more subtle than a patch on the jersey (that would have to be approved by the IOC, COC and Hockey Canada for sure), but players could do things individually that shows support that don't need approval.

They could wear rainbow bracelets in interviews, they could have something on a necklace, etc. None would require even IOC approval.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

It depends how they do it. They could be more subtle than a patch on the jersey

Eh? A patch on a jersey is too much for you? How subtle do you want them to be?

How about they meet in total privacy with other likeminded people? Or perhaps post vaguely supportive comments on Facebook? You know, vague enough that in no way would anybody in the world actually feel like somebody takes this stuff seriously, because that would totally upset the IOC.

The whole point of showing support is that people can actually see it.

Seriously, it's not like people are suggesting we should boycott Russia or for asking that the Harper give Putin the one fingered salute in public.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Itse

Eh? A patch on a jersey is too much for you? How subtle do you want them to be?

How about they meet in total privacy with other likeminded people? Or perhaps post vaguely supportive comments on Facebook? You know, vague enough that in no way would anybody in the world actually feel like somebody takes this stuff seriously, because that would totally upset the IOC.

The whole point of showing support is that people can actually see it.

Seriously, it's not like people are suggesting we should boycott Russia or for asking that the Harper give Putin the one fingered salute in public.

Oh for #### sakes, don't just cherry pick part of a response and ignore that question that was being answered.

the point was the IOC, COC and Hockey Canada would all have to approve a patch on a jersey, I was merely suggesting things that wouldn't need approval from a governing body

[Fozzie_DeBear]

It's a good point Beef makes...where does the COC and IOC's jurisdiction end on uniforms.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by korzym12

The thread title is "would you support..."

I've stated that I'm firmly against this, stated my reasons, and on the other hand have been attacked for having my own opinion and thinking for myself.

I'm not a troll, as a troll: deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

On the other hand, every time I've said something, it's the gay supporters that seek an emotional response from me and cry when they get ignored.

Owned.

I agree that you aren't a troll. I accept that you are a bigot who is quite honestly expressing his viewpoint. But I also laugh at the fact that you are lying to yourself when you say people aren't getting an emotional response from you. You wouldn't be here defending your petty hatred and intolerance over and over if it wasn't emotionally important to you.