Summer Prospect Ranking Poll Round 9

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by _Q_

That's it though. Horak is already a third liner who might one day become a second liner. Poirier and Klimchuk have both been projected to be third liners with 2nd liner as their ceilings. To me it makes no sense to put those two ahead of Horak when he has accomplished already what the other two some day hope to be.

I like Horak but I don't think you will find too many people that agree that his ceiling is as high as Poirier or Klimchuk's. Not even close, IMO.

Also, like several other posters have stated, I don't consider Horak a prospect. Without any consensus on what the criteria should be, I just go with HockeyFuture's, being 65 games graduates them (I would use 50 personally). I also think 25 years old is a reasonable cut-off.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

It was between Horak and Breen with me. I went with Breen.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Hmm, I dunno about that. I like Horak, but I've never seen his ceiling to be much higher than an average 2nd liner in the NHL. If both Klimchuk/Poirier only end up where Horak is now, I would consider them to be disappointments.

I would be honestly surprised if they end up better than second liners. I think there's definitely a bit of "shiny new toy" syndrome going on in this thread.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I like Horak but I don't think you will find too many people that agree that his ceiling is as high as Poirier or Klimchuk's. Not even close, IMO.

Also, like several other posters have stated, I don't consider Horak a prospect. Without any consensus on what the criteria should be, I just go with HockeyFuture's, being 65 games graduates them (I would use 50 personally). I also think 25 years old is a reasonable cut-off.

Well there's the disconnect then. This poll has Horak as a prospect, so I factored him in, where as it seems others aren't doing the same.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Went with Horak again simply because I think he's already at where Klimchuk/Poirier project to be.

all three to be better than Horak currently is..... bigger jump for klimchuk and Poirer than Horak.

People tend to make light or not realize how exceptional Horak has done to date... from the 2009 draft he is #22 in NHL games played (81) ..... only 16 guys drafted in the First round have more NHL games than him.

Not too much of a stretch to say that Horak would have been a good pick at #17-20 in that first round.

Backlund chosen #24 in 2007 has 170 NHL games which puts him at 19th spot in games played from that draft.

Baertschi picked #13 is 12th in games played from the 2011 draft class.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Well there's the disconnect then. This poll has Horak as a prospect, so I factored him in, where as it seems others aren't doing the same.

More on this...

Even though I don't think his ceiling is as high, if I thought Horak were a prospect, I would have him ahead of Poirier and Klimchuk as well. Even though they have the potential, they are both still a long way away and Horak is already an NHLer. For me, that puts him ahead.

But again, I don't consider him a prospect.

[Erick Estrada]

Horak is likely going to lose his spot on the Flames to Knight IMO and I see him as one of those players that will be more of an injury call up. He has good hockey sense but doesn't really excell in any area and I see him as a NHL depth/AHL player. A useful player but we are talking top prospects here.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by _Q_

That's it though. Horak is already a third liner who might one day become a second liner. Poirier and Klimchuk have both been projected to be third liners with 2nd liner as their ceilings. To me it makes no sense to put those two ahead of Horak when he has accomplished already what the other two some day hope to be.

Horak has never shown that he can produce enough points to be in the top 2 lines. In junior he did ok but for me I don't think it translates into a lot of points in the NHL. Probably tops out to be 15-20g 40pts player. A good 3rd liner. Poirier and Klimchuk both have good chances to be 2nd liners.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by _Q_

That's it though. Horak is already a third liner who might one day become a second liner. Poirier and Klimchuk have both been projected to be third liners with 2nd liner as their ceilings. To me it makes no sense to put those two ahead of Horak when he has accomplished already what the other two some day hope to be.

I don't think Ive seen many people ever refer to them as 3rd lines. I think more like 2nd liners, with an outside (albeit quite slim) chance at 1st for Poirier. I know its dangerous to base talent off of hilight videos, but Poirier to me just looks to have so much more raw skill and speed than Horak has ever shown.

If Feaster and Co. were thinking that they were drafting two 3rd-line energy guys in the 1st-round of one of the supposedly deepest drafts in years, then they drafted very poorly. I doubt they did though.

Like I said, I quite like Horak, but I just don't think his ceiling compares to these two, especially Poirier.

[Miniac]

Poirier.

[Mike F]

Uncertain where Berra should slot in. He's looked great in every venue I've seen him, and is undoubtedly 'NHL ready', but there's a long history of the 'best goalie outside the NHL' not making much of an impact.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I like Scorak, but I just don't see his ceiling at all that high. I think it is a huge accomplishment that he has played quite a bit in the NHL, and I do see him as a very serviceable bottom 6 player moving forward. With that being said, bottom 6 guys are relatively easy to find in FA every summer, and top 6 players are not. I am voting based mostly on projections rather than the ability to jump into the NHL.

If I was voting purely based on NHL readiness, my picks would go something like:
Horak
Bouma
Ramo
Nemisz
Baertschi
Hanowski
Reinhart
Cundari
Breen (I think he is NHL ready, and has been a pro for a while now)
Knight

As you can see, most of this is just listed in NHL games played (roughly - didn't look up exact figures). I don't think there is anyone on this board that would rank the prospects accordingly. It isn't a slight at all to the guys who have already played in the NHL (and contributed, Nemisz included which I know many guys are really low on), but rather I rank at how easy or how 'valuable' other prospects are if they develop anywhere close to their ceiling, and slightly weighing that against how probable it is that they actually get there.

For instance, I think Breen is DEFINITELY more NHL ready than Culkin, but I would probably rate Culkin slightly higher when the time comes to choosing between the two. Once again, totally not a slight against Breen at all - I am quite high on him and I think he will make a great bottom pairing defender, but Culkin I see more as a top 4 if he continues his progression (and tied with Kulak, actually).

It is interesting how some posters are placing more weight on a prospect's NHL readiness. Though it would be kind of a pain in the butt, I would almost like to see 2 separate polls run through our prospects. One that is weighted the most on a prospect's ceiling, the other on how close to NHL ready the prospects are (if ever). I think it would be kind of interesting to see the differences.

[dammage79]

Wow, no love for Granlund who shone in the WJC and prospect camp.

[Calgary4LIfe]

^^^ I think some bottom six players have tremendous value and are hard to find in FA or even in trades. Joel Otto for one I hope Knight develops into someone of that nature (though that would be incredible!), but Horak I don't see becoming someone of that caliber. A good bottom 6 player, but not someone that is all that difficult to replace (though home-grown prospects are always a benefit to the club).

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Assuming his knees are back to 100%, I think Bouma is being forgotten by most posters here. The new draftees are getting all the attention for having 'high offensive ceilings', but successful teams aren't all about scoring and I believe Bouma has a solid career in Calgary's bottom 6 (with spot duty on 2nd line) coming which in my eyes makes him a better prospect than the riskier picks such as Klimchuck, Poirier, etc. Bouma is already proven NHL ready and will have a bigger role than people think once the main camp starts and we're comparing men with men.

I like Bouma. IMO he's a 4th liner who can fill on the 3rd line. So his ceiling is pretty low. He's almost a lock to make the big team this year however. Not sure I'd even consider him a prospect still.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by fotze

Coming from the guy who voted for Billins.

I don't even know who Billins is. He just reminded me of Billings, Montana.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Wow, no love for Granlund who shone in the WJC and prospect camp.

He's still a project IMO. Has the skill to be an NHLer but question marks on strength, skating, and how his game will translate in North America. He's a wildcard still IMO. If he stays in North America this season and rips the AHL up I think he'll get more respect. If he goes home and really rips up the Finnish league he'll get more respect. Good signs from him last year but we'll need to see more before he cracks our top 10.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Fire

Horak has never shown that he can produce enough points to be in the top 2 lines. In junior he did ok but for me I don't think it translates into a lot of points in the NHL. Probably tops out to be 15-20g 40pts player. A good 3rd liner. Poirier and Klimchuk both have good chances to be 2nd liners.

Horak currently is the 24th highest scoring NHLer from the 2009 draft. He has 18 pts in his 81 NHL games.

At the start of the AHL season where the AHL was stocked with all the good young players that were eligible... Horak had 10 goals in his first 8 games.

For comparison: Eberle had 6, Nino NIEDERREITER had 5, Toffolli had 3, Taylor Hall 5 in their first 8 games.


No I don't think that Horak will outscore Baertschi, He is working to be a regular NHL player and having 3rd and fourth line skills gets him more games with the big club.

Baertschi was not good enough to get top 6 ice time - Iginla, Hudler, Glencross, Tanquay, Cammalleri and Stempniak so Horak has to be able to play gritty and be responsible defensively to stay with the big club.

I don't think he was asked to or given the opportunity to score a lot in the NHL so far in his career. Doesn't mean that it won't happen.

[Flame19,289]

Voted for Agostino.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I don't even know who Billins is. He just reminded me of Billings, Montana.

Small D-man - played in AHL all Star Game 37 pts in 76 AHL games his first pro season last year after 4 years in at Ferris State

He had 29 pts his last year of College hockey --- Schultz had 44.

Could be a sleeper if Brodie or Wideman are injured.