Summer Prospect Ranking Poll Round 7

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I haven't picked any defensemen simply because IMO Wotherspoon and Sieloff are low ceiling players. I could see Wotherspoon making the team as a top 6 defenseman but after him we are talking about guys that wouldn't be top 10 prospects on most teams. No saying Seiloff won't play in the NHL one day but its way too early to tell and not enough evidence exists to point to him as a full time NHLer and 5/6 NHL defenseman are a dime a dozen in free agency.

Patently false statement IMO.

I think most are going to be very very surprised with PS in a year or 2.

[Vinny01]

These polls we have are really showing me the depth we have when 2 first rounders from the deepest draft in years might not crack the top 10 (I do think they will round it out at 9 and 10). Solid work by the scouting department since Feaster took over. Nemisz and Reinhart used to highlight this group now they are lucky to crack the top 15.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Went with Poirier due to his upside as a top two liner.

Sieloff could jump ahead with a fantastic year this year. Knight I like but I haven't seen him enough to tell if he's more like a Yelle or more like a Conroy. Horak should be in the mix soon too.

This is where the poll is going to diverge

[Red Menace]

Still a bit baffled by the overrating of Wotherspoon, Sieloff and even Knight....don't see how any of them can be compared to the 2 first rounders we just got in a very deep draft.
My criteria is always who is the greater asset? No way we would have traded one of those 1st rd picks for Knight, or that anyone else would have traded one of their 1st's this year to get Wotherspoon or Sieloff.
I don't want to talk negatively about any of those 3 guys because I have high hopes for all of them, but I really feel CP has missed the boat a bit on these last few picks.
I am continuing to pick Poirier, followed by Klimchuk.

[Vulcan]

I was debating between Knight and Sieloff and picked Knight because he's supposed to be ready to make the big team. Using that criteria, Horak and Bouma have to be considered too and also Breen and Cundari. The others are too young and far away to get a good read on.

The thing I don't like about Sieloff is his game is being the big hitter but he isn't big at 6' and 200 lbs., at least by NHL standards. I think he found that out in junior so he's decided to put on some more muscle. Is it enough and will it affect his mobility. Too many questions for me, so I think he's somewhat of a gamble.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Still a bit baffled by the overrating of Wotherspoon, Sieloff and even Knight....don't see how any of them can be compared to the 2 first rounders we just got in a very deep draft.
My criteria is always who is the greater asset? No way we would have traded one of those 1st rd picks for Knight, or that anyone else would have traded one of their 1st's this year to get Wotherspoon or Sieloff.
I don't want to talk negatively about any of those 3 guys because I have high hopes for all of them, but I really feel CP has missed the boat a bit on these last few picks.
I am continuing to pick Poirier, followed by Klimchuk.

I agree with a lot of what you've said.

However it can be argued that both Wotherspoon and Sieloff have developed well since being drafted and may have raised their value from a 2nd rounder. Especially Wotherspoon IMO who has really proven himself in the last year and looks like he'll be close to making the NHL soon.

I have no problem putting Wotherspoon high because I think his development over the past 2 years has erased any doubts about him and increased his value. Sieloff I think is still a bit too unproven to rank above Poirier but I can see where people are coming from there. Top 4 defenders are also arguably harder to find than 2nd line forwards.

So I can see the argument from both sides. Personally I had Wotherspoon a lot higher than Sieloff on my list strictly because Wotherspoon's development in the past year was great.

I do think the fanbase is underrating Poirier and Klimchuk slightly at this point. Both have higher offensive upsides than Knight from what I can tell. But I also understand why people would want to rank highly a likely NHL ready, big, right shooting centre with tremendous faceoff skills. There's no question marks on Knight right now except how he transitions to pro. Still a lot more question marks on Poirier and Klimchuk.

From the thread that started these polls I ended up settling on the following rankings for 6-10

6. Wotherspoon
7. Poirier
8. Horak
9. Knight
10. Sieloff
11. Klimchuk

Knight could be ahead of Horak easily. Sieloff maybe should be higher? Perhaps I'm underrating Klimchuk?

Really tough to make the list.

[getbak]

I went with Sieloff the last two rounds, and sticking with him here.

I'm not as high on Knight as a lot of people. I have Arnold ahead of Knight long-term, and Knight and Reinhart are very close in my books, with Reinhart ahead on experience at this point.

[Red Menace]

People are making their choices based on who is farther along in their development, instead of who is a better prospect??
Why was Monahan first then?
I guess Horak and Bouma are our best prospects....
Not saying it isn't a consideration, but it certainly shouldn't be the main one in my opinion.

[Red Menace]

I'd also say there is a big difference between a teams #3 defenceman and their #4 defenceman. #3's typically get lots more PP and PK time and can be counted on to chip in 30+ pts. I have some doubts that Wotherspoon can ever reach #3 level, I suspect he is more of a 4 or 5.
Seiloff seems like a #4 at absolute best, probably a #5; his progress isn't much difference from John Ramage, who will probably land around #20 on this list.
I'd equate a #3 defenceman to a 2nd line forward, but I'd say a 4th defenceman is more like a 3rd line fwd....still valuable sure, but in the bottom half of your roster.
Our remaining fwds with 2nd line potential are more valuable than Sieloff imo.

The good news is we have so many good prospects to argue about.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

People are making their choices based on who is farther along in their development, instead of who is a better prospect??
Why was Monahan first then?
I guess Horak and Bouma are our best prospects....
Not saying it isn't a consideration, but it certainly shouldn't be the main one in my opinion.

People also over rate the shiniest and newest toys. If Poirer say makes the world juniors that will raise his value but otherwise I won't get carried away. Every year we see the latest picks overtake most of the previous picks with little justification.

[Tinordi]

Poirier because he went 22 overall in a deep draft. Head to head Poirier is a better prospect than when Backlund was a prospect and Backlund was universally thought of as our best prospect for over two years.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

People also over rate the shiniest and newest toys. If Poirer say makes the world juniors that will raise his value but otherwise I won't get carried away. Every year we see the latest picks overtake most of the previous picks with little justification.

Like the shiny new Corban Knight toy that you voted for?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Poirier because he went 22 overall in a deep draft. Head to head Poirier is a better prospect than when Backlund was a prospect and Backlund was universally thought of as our best prospect for over two years.

I'd argue that. Backlund dropped in the draft because he'd been injured. Backlund had also been starring in international play. We'll see how Poirier does if he makes Team Canada. It's not that I don't like Poirier, his stock is rising, it's just that at the same age Backlund had accomplished more.

[djsFlames]

Granlund, folks. Cause last month and the WJCs proved to me he has high end skill, an NHL caliber shot, and could be a real weapon like his bro. He shot ahead of Corban for me at the camps.

Then Knight.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Like the shiny new Corban Knight toy that you voted for?

Could be, maybe I should have taken Horak.

[djsFlames]

Who the #### voted Hanowski?

[JurassicTunga12]

Corban Knight.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I'd also say there is a big difference between a teams #3 defenceman and their #4 defenceman. #3's typically get lots more PP and PK time and can be counted on to chip in 30+ pts. I have some doubts that Wotherspoon can ever reach #3 level, I suspect he is more of a 4 or 5.
Seiloff seems like a #4 at absolute best, probably a #5; his progress isn't much difference from John Ramage, who will probably land around #20 on this list.
I'd equate a #3 defenceman to a 2nd line forward, but I'd say a 4th defenceman is more like a 3rd line fwd....still valuable sure, but in the bottom half of your roster.
Our remaining fwds with 2nd line potential are more valuable than Sieloff imo.

The good news is we have so many good prospects to argue about.

Thats just ridiculous.

The last time the NHL played a full season, exactly 43 Dmen scored 30 or more pts. In your scenario there should be at least 90.

And i think you truly undervalue what Seiloff is....he wont get a bunch of PP time, but he will anchor the PK for years IMO. Add to that his smarts and his physicality compared to most, he will be an effective #3 and possibly get top 2 minutes. Those guys are not easy to find.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Thats just ridiculous.

The last time the NHL played a full season, exactly 43 Dmen scored 30 or more pts. In your scenario there should be at least 90.

And i think you truly undervalue what Seiloff is....he wont get a bunch of PP time, but he will anchor the PK for years IMO. Add to that his smarts and his physicality compared to most, he will be an effective #3 and possibly get top 2 minutes. Those guys are not easy to find.

Top end for Sieloff is Ryan McDonaugh IMO. That is if he reaches 100% of his potential and develops well.

McDonaugh was also a guy that didn't have much of an offensive game out of the draft, but it developed as he got older.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Thats just ridiculous.

The last time the NHL played a full season, exactly 43 Dmen scored 30 or more pts. In your scenario there should be at least 90.

And i think you truly undervalue what Seiloff is....he wont get a bunch of PP time, but he will anchor the PK for years IMO. Add to that his smarts and his physicality compared to most, he will be an effective #3 and possibly get top 2 minutes. Those guys are not easy to find.

Ok, my bad, I overestimated the value...it's more like 20 pts....do you really think the guy who is putting up 11 pts in jr is going to suddenly put up 20 in the bigs?
I like the guy, and hope he is as good as you guys all think. Just don't see it yet.
Ramage was captaining the USA WJC team a few yrs back too, and he seems like a good comparable to me.